The figures quoted in that piece are quite insignificant numbers

QUOTE:
"In April this year, 210,700 18-24 year olds claimed for up to six months while only 30,700 claimed for 6-12 months, falling to only 6,000 after 12 months,"

So only a small number affected. Cant see what this plan will achieve.

ian

penthesilie wrote:

QUOTE:
Hi MrB!
'Politics is the art of the possible', is a line from 'Evita', a friend of mine played Colonel Peron in the revival at the Adelphi last year, LOL!!
Cheers, Pen.

Hi Pen

Very good thanks! I certainly didn't know that information to start with! lol

Cheers

Mr B

hi all

"the welfare state" was created to lift people out of poverty.

it was created as an alturnative to the "poor laws", and the end to poverty and the workhouse.

in a quote from former welfare reform minister jim murphy: work is the only way out of poverty and social-security benefits should not be sufficient to lift people out of poverty.

what the cons are proposing in relation to young unemployed seems to be the workhouse ethos and the introduction of forced and bonded labour, under the threat of sanctions, both of which are illegal under the human rights act.

pug

Gareth wrote:

QUOTE:
Their plans for getting people off IB were mooted back in January.

Tory Idea

I emailed Grayling to ask what had they decided to do about the possibility of the 200,000 appealing against being thrown off IB and perhaps winning. Needless to say his reply was " we haven't yet decided what to do regarding the appeals process"!!

Also I woinder if the tories have worked out how long it would take to re-test all 2.5million current IB claimants, somehow I don't think they have..typical tory rhetoric me thinks.

Hi Gareth,

Well for a start the Tories are currently not governing the country at present, and it's debatable who will win the next General Election.

However, most importantly, the appeals process has nothing to do with the DWP, it comes under the remit of the Lord Chancellor, who personally appoints all tribunal members for all Social Security Benefit Appeals and other areas where tribunals adjudicate.

A tribunal is in fact a 'court of law' although they are much more informal, they are a court.

I think that any attempt to deny a claimant the right to appeal, would not only breach their rights under the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) now enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998, but also under common law.

In my opinion, whichever party was in power, any attempt to interfere with the administration of justice would come up with strong opposition from both Houses of Parliament, especially the House of Lords.

Jim

jima1 wrote:

QUOTE:
Gareth wrote:

QUOTE:
Their plans for getting people off IB were mooted back in January.

Tory Idea

I emailed Grayling to ask what had they decided to do about the possibility of the 200,000 appealing against being thrown off IB and perhaps winning. Needless to say his reply was " we haven't yet decided what to do regarding the appeals process"!!

Also I woinder if the tories have worked out how long it would take to re-test all 2.5million current IB claimants, somehow I don't think they have..typical tory rhetoric me thinks.

Hi Gareth,

Well for a start the Tories are currently not governing the country at present, and it's debatable who will win the next General Election.

However, most importantly, the appeals process has nothing to do with the DWP, it comes under the remit of the Lord Chancellor, who personally appoints all tribunal members for all Social Security Benefit Appeals and other areas where tribunals adjudicate.

A tribunal is in fact a 'court of law' although they are much more informal, they are a court.

I think that any attempt to deny a claimant the right to appeal, would not only breach their rights under the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) now enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998, but also under common law.

In my opinion, whichever party was in power, any attempt to interfere with the administration of justice would come up with strong opposition from both Houses of Parliament, especially the House of Lords.

Jim

Unfortunately this government have already denied claimants the right of appeal with Tax Credit overpayments.

If for example, an overpayment of TC occurs, HMRC can simply claw back the overpayment without any proper explanation, even if it is entirely their fault (official error). The only defence a claimant has, is to ask for a judicial review of HMRC's decision, and this can prove to be very expensive for claimants where legal aid is not available.

I just wonder perhaps if the goverment were aware of this? Personally, I think so!

Hi CD,

HMRC, formerly the Inland Revenue have always had much wider powers than the DWP and Tax Credits are administered by HMRC..

As I said, with social security benefits, there has always been a statutory right, as well as a common law right to appeal against a refusal of a social security benefit.

As I've had little experience with Tax Credits, I cannot give a definitive reply on the right to appeal.

Perhaps Steve could comment.

Jim