High Blood Pressure and Asthma

radhika wrote:

Meg3 wrote:

I also found the following template of one of the letters which I will be using at my Assessment on Monday, with a supporting GP letter. I suggest anyone worried of their worsening conditions to do the same. I wish I would have done this orginally.

ESA letter for claimant to be submitted with ESA50 form or presented to the DWP/Atos WCA Assessor

To whom it may concern
Following this Work Capability Assessment I may be found
fit for work
or
placed in the WRAG (work related activity group)
In my opinion this will be contradiction of my own General Medical Practitioner’s knowledge of me over time, clinical assessment and medical certification.
My General Medical Practitioner is the custodian of my primary medical record which has been accumulated during my lifetime in the UK
My Past Medical History and current problems include:
1
2
3
4
5
I am of the opinion that exceptional circumstances Regulation 29 may apply:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work.’
Or with regard to the WRAG group decision that regulation 35 may apply:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity.’
I am of the opinion that substantial risk exists because:


Yours sincerely

(Patient’s name)

Bro58,

Just read this post.

Have any other members used this template in their defence with their ESA50 forms and found it to be useful???? The wording of it does sound very useful Meg3, but i am wondering if D/M or Atos will take any notice!!!!

As surely what one would be putting in the "Template", is what they should be putting in the ESA50 form in the relevant descriptors, descriptors, descriptors, (your cath phrase bro58 )to highlight which relevant descriptor they qualify for to get into the S/G.

Hope i have not got the wrong end of stick

Radhika.

Hi R,

As this Template seems to be of fairly recent origins, I am not aware of any feedback positive or otherwise.

I would also be including any relevant information that may qualify one under the "Descriptors, Descriptors, Descriptors", along with, or in The ESA50.

("By George, she's got it", quoting from that well known film, My Fair Lady, (Pygmaleon by G B Shaw) )

As always, it is a matter of choice.

bro58.

bro58 wrote:

Meg3 wrote:

I also found the following template of one of the letters which I will be using at my Assessment on Monday, with a supporting GP letter. I suggest anyone worried of their worsening conditions to do the same. I wish I would have done this orginally.

ESA letter for claimant to be submitted with ESA50 form or presented to the DWP/Atos WCA Assessor

To whom it may concern
Following this Work Capability Assessment I may be found
fit for work
or
placed in the WRAG (work related activity group)
In my opinion this will be contradiction of my own General Medical Practitioner’s knowledge of me over time, clinical assessment and medical certification.
My General Medical Practitioner is the custodian of my primary medical record which has been accumulated during my lifetime in the UK
My Past Medical History and current problems include:
1
2
3
4
5
I am of the opinion that exceptional circumstances Regulation 29 may apply:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work.’
Or with regard to the WRAG group decision that regulation 35 may apply:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity.’
I am of the opinion that substantial risk exists because:


Yours sincerely

(Patient’s name)

Hi M3,

Unfortunately, neither ATOS nor the DWP are obliged to take notice of any input from an individuals G.P. or other treating HCP, although all evidence should be considered.

The reason they give for the above is that it is unlikely that G.P.'s or other treating HCP's have any experience or qualifications in Disability Analysis, whereas all ATOS HCP's are Approved Disability Analysts.

I am not saying this is right, just reiterating the "Party Line" according to ATOS/DWP.

bro58

Hi,

You stated that all Atos HCP's are Approved Disability Analysts.

So,if claimant was suffering with fabromyalgia,then would HCP dealing with claimants ESA50 form be qualified in that field to analyse the disability and the daily impacts it would have on the individual??? or would they rely on the info that is provided by the claimant!!!

Radhika.

Hi R,

I am only quoting what is stated by the DWP in The WCA Handbook. They also state that all medical evidence should be taken into account by the DM when coming to a decision.

Therefore, we have somewhat of a contradiction. I would surmise that the DWP DM "should" take notice of the most compelling evidence. That's why The ESA WCA, is so intentionally fickle. I would still recommend that members provide as much evidence as they can, at the ESA50 stage, if the evidence isn't submitted, then it cannot possibly be taken into account.

bro58

Thanks for your reply and yes i totally agree that one should supply as much info as possible with their ESA50.

However, is it possible that one can insist that when an Atos HCP dealing with their ESA50 is qualified in a particular field, ie, Rheumotology for claimants with fabromyalgia, Neurology for head injuries and so on.

The reason is that it is the HCP who makes recomendations to the D/M in the first instance and i am sure i read somewhere that D/M's usually go by HCP's report, who are supposed to be Disability Analasyts, but surely one has to be qualified in certain fields to make correct judgements!!!!

Patients go to GP'S with their problems in the first instance and GP's refer them onto specialists!!!!

Radhika.

radhika wrote:

Thanks for your reply and yes i totally agree that one should supply as much info as possible with their ESA50.

However, is it possible that one can insist that when an Atos HCP dealing with their ESA50 is qualified in a particular field, ie, Rheumotology for claimants with fabromyalgia, Neurology for head injuries and so on.

The reason is that it is the HCP who makes recomendations to the D/M in the first instance and i am sure i read somewhere that D/M's usually go by HCP's report, who are supposed to be Disability Analasyts, but surely one has to be qualified in certain fields to make correct judgements!!!!

Patients go to GP'S with their problems in the first instance and GP's refer them onto specialists!!!!

Radhika.

Hi R,

You are missing the whole point of The DWP/ ATOS argument.

They concede that ATOS HCP's may not be as qualified as a G.P. or Consultant in the diagnosis or treatment of a claimant's medical conditions, they are not required to do this.

However, they state that the ATOS HCP, is experienced and qualified in The functional assessment of a claimant's limitations, and whether these limitation fit the descriptors in so much that the claimant is deemed as having LCW, LCWRA, or not.

There are certain Neurological conditions where ATOS are supposed to use a doctor only, to carry out the assessment. (This doctor will still be an ADA though)

However, they are most vague with respect to this, even in FOI requests that have been made.

This is why The ESA WCA should not be thought of as a "Medical" it is a functional assessment.

See FOI's Re : ATOS HCP's here :

www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/ATOS%20HCP...dies=1&commit=Search

bro58

I know that the basic requirements for getting ESA are that the DM uses the information gathered to assess whether or not the claimant's functional limitations match the descriptors.

Nonetheless I see from the WCA Handbook that diagnosis is relevant, for example the matter of Support Group eligibility, where the HCP must

consider the possibility of the Support Group from the outset, especially in cases where the diagnosis may suggest a severe problem. (p24)

One of the main functions of the WCA is to work out whether the claimant is faking or exaggerating symptoms to suggest more functional limitations than they really have:

You should comment on the consistency of the above factors with the diagnosis and with the stage reached by the disease, and with the claimant’s lifestyle.

I know by experience that the existence of a diagnosis by a specialist can tip the scales with a tribunal.

Diagnosis is of secondary importance, and probably not something that the claimant can make much of, but the HCP and the DM are supposed to use it - even if only as a yardstick.

Getting a consultant (best) or your GP to give a clear diagnosis which the HCP/DM can find in their handbook might be important.

carruthers wrote:

I know that the basic requirements for getting ESA are that the DM uses the information gathered to assess whether or not the claimant's functional limitations match the descriptors.

Nonetheless I see from the WCA Handbook that diagnosis is relevant, for example the matter of Support Group eligibility, where the HCP must

consider the possibility of the Support Group from the outset, especially in cases where the diagnosis may suggest a severe problem. (p24)

One of the main functions of the WCA is to work out whether the claimant is faking or exaggerating symptoms to suggest more functional limitations than they really have:

You should comment on the consistency of the above factors with the diagnosis and with the stage reached by the disease, and with the claimant’s lifestyle.

I know by experience that the existence of a diagnosis by a specialist can tip the scales with a tribunal.

Diagnosis is of secondary importance, and probably not something that the claimant can make much of, but the HCP and the DM are supposed to use it - even if only as a yardstick.

Getting a consultant (best) or your GP to give a clear diagnosis which the HCP/DM can find in their handbook might be important.

Hi c,

You said it all in your first sentence really. :

"I know that the basic requirements for getting ESA are that the DM uses the information gathered to assess whether or not the claimant's functional limitations match the descriptors."

bro58