- Posts: 121
- Forum
- Members forums
- ESA, PIP and DLA Queries and Results
- Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
× Members
Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
- Chlorinated
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
8 years 10 months ago #135114 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
Many thanks for you replies Gordan. If I may, I have a question regarding that 'Engaging with people socially' descriptor, the listed items are:
a. Can engage with other people unaided. 0 points
b. Needs prompting to be able to engage with other people. 2 points
c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points
d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either – (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; or (ii) the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person. 8 points
Suppose somebody just avoids social engagement due to mental impairment but the assessor doesn't consider the claimant to be experiencing 'overwhelming psychological distress'. Assume that prompting or social support makes no difference to the person actually engaging socially. In this case which descriptor do they satisfy if any at all?
Will the assessor just assume the claimant doesn't satisfy d and places them in b/c even though social support or prompting will not make a difference?(i.e. do assessors assume people who are socially isolated due to mental impairment but at the same time not normal with regards to social engagement, to be in need of prompting or social support regardless of weather it make a difference or not) or worse yet, would they be considered of capable of social engagement?
Thanks
a. Can engage with other people unaided. 0 points
b. Needs prompting to be able to engage with other people. 2 points
c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points
d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either – (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; or (ii) the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person. 8 points
Suppose somebody just avoids social engagement due to mental impairment but the assessor doesn't consider the claimant to be experiencing 'overwhelming psychological distress'. Assume that prompting or social support makes no difference to the person actually engaging socially. In this case which descriptor do they satisfy if any at all?
Will the assessor just assume the claimant doesn't satisfy d and places them in b/c even though social support or prompting will not make a difference?(i.e. do assessors assume people who are socially isolated due to mental impairment but at the same time not normal with regards to social engagement, to be in need of prompting or social support regardless of weather it make a difference or not) or worse yet, would they be considered of capable of social engagement?
Thanks
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Chlorinated
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 121
8 years 10 months ago #135115 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
Regarding 'Making budgeting decisions'.
It seems to me the descriptor is about whether somebody is 'aware' of how they are managing their finances.
Suppose somebody has health condition e.g. OCD and they are obsessed with buying designer clothes.
They maybe 'fully aware' that as a result of spending obsessively on clothes they will get themselves into debt, not be able to pay for other things etc however due to the nature of their health condition they cannot resist but live outside the budget. When it comes to the actual things of paying for items, paying bills etc and realising they will go into debt, they have no problem in being aware of this.
In this scenario, can the claimant get any points or does the descriptor not apply to them? It seems to me the descriptor doesn't apply because they are fully aware of how to use money, the problems the over spending will cause and the fact that they are going out of budget etc. The act of spending on something is another matter not related to management of finances itself. Am I right in thinking such a person would not get point for this descriptor?
Thanks
It seems to me the descriptor is about whether somebody is 'aware' of how they are managing their finances.
Suppose somebody has health condition e.g. OCD and they are obsessed with buying designer clothes.
They maybe 'fully aware' that as a result of spending obsessively on clothes they will get themselves into debt, not be able to pay for other things etc however due to the nature of their health condition they cannot resist but live outside the budget. When it comes to the actual things of paying for items, paying bills etc and realising they will go into debt, they have no problem in being aware of this.
In this scenario, can the claimant get any points or does the descriptor not apply to them? It seems to me the descriptor doesn't apply because they are fully aware of how to use money, the problems the over spending will cause and the fact that they are going out of budget etc. The act of spending on something is another matter not related to management of finances itself. Am I right in thinking such a person would not get point for this descriptor?
Thanks
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51071
8 years 10 months ago #135146 by Gordon
I am afraid I can't give you a definitive answer, however, if you do not suffer or it is not accepted that you suffer "overwhelming psychological distress" or there is not a "substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person" then you do not meet the criteria for (d) and will not score points for it.
How the assessor will score you for (b) and (c) will depend on how they see your problems. The fact that you do not respond top prompting or social support does not preclude you being considered as meeting these descriptors.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
Amonia wrote: Many thanks for you replies Gordan. If I may, I have a question regarding that 'Engaging with people socially' descriptor, the listed items are:
a. Can engage with other people unaided. 0 points
b. Needs prompting to be able to engage with other people. 2 points
c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points
d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either – (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; or (ii) the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person. 8 points
Suppose somebody just avoids social engagement due to mental impairment but the assessor doesn't consider the claimant to be experiencing 'overwhelming psychological distress'. Assume that prompting or social support makes no difference to the person actually engaging socially. In this case which descriptor do they satisfy if any at all?
Will the assessor just assume the claimant doesn't satisfy d and places them in b/c even though social support or prompting will not make a difference?(i.e. do assessors assume people who are socially isolated due to mental impairment but at the same time not normal with regards to social engagement, to be in need of prompting or social support regardless of weather it make a difference or not) or worse yet, would they be considered of capable of social engagement?
Thanks
I am afraid I can't give you a definitive answer, however, if you do not suffer or it is not accepted that you suffer "overwhelming psychological distress" or there is not a "substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person" then you do not meet the criteria for (d) and will not score points for it.
How the assessor will score you for (b) and (c) will depend on how they see your problems. The fact that you do not respond top prompting or social support does not preclude you being considered as meeting these descriptors.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51071
8 years 10 months ago #135147 by Gordon
Both simple and complex budgeting decisions are defined in the PIP legislation, see the PIP Claim guide.
I think it unlikely that the scenario you describe would meet the criteria for a simple budgeting decision but it may be possible to argue that it does involve complex decisions in regard to budgets.
It will depend on whether the assessor and DM limit themselves to the calculation on budgets or the execution of them, so you should think about addressing the latter on the form.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
Amonia wrote: Regarding 'Making budgeting decisions'.
It seems to me the descriptor is about whether somebody is 'aware' of how they are managing their finances.
Suppose somebody has health condition e.g. OCD and they are obsessed with buying designer clothes.
They maybe 'fully aware' that as a result of spending obsessively on clothes they will get themselves into debt, not be able to pay for other things etc however due to the nature of their health condition they cannot resist but live outside the budget. When it comes to the actual things of paying for items, paying bills etc and realising they will go into debt, they have no problem in being aware of this.
In this scenario, can the claimant get any points or does the descriptor not apply to them? It seems to me the descriptor doesn't apply because they are fully aware of how to use money, the problems the over spending will cause and the fact that they are going out of budget etc. The act of spending on something is another matter not related to management of finances itself. Am I right in thinking such a person would not get point for this descriptor?
Thanks
Both simple and complex budgeting decisions are defined in the PIP legislation, see the PIP Claim guide.
I think it unlikely that the scenario you describe would meet the criteria for a simple budgeting decision but it may be possible to argue that it does involve complex decisions in regard to budgets.
It will depend on whether the assessor and DM limit themselves to the calculation on budgets or the execution of them, so you should think about addressing the latter on the form.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- ken
8 years 10 months ago - 8 years 10 months ago #135187 by ken
Replied by ken on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
Hi k,
I have deleted your comments.
We do not allow disputes between members on the forum.
See : www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=top...=10&id=104272#135190
bro58
I have deleted your comments.
We do not allow disputes between members on the forum.
See : www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=top...=10&id=104272#135190
bro58
This message contains confidential information
Last edit: 8 years 10 months ago by .
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Chlorinated
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 121
8 years 10 months ago #135285 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
I asked my social worker to write a short letter to cover some descriptors that were lacking in my evidences. She agreed to do it.
I then found a form which lists all the pip questions and just directly asks the person filling it in to say what care is required e.g. 'need prompting to shower...' sign and date the form. This looked pretty convenient so I asked her to use that instead of write a letter.
1. do u see any problem with submitting a form as such they will both just be making the same point right?
2. for social engagement, my social worker just put 'cannot engage with other people due to experiencing severe psychological distress' while not putting anything about social support or prompting. would it have made more sense for her to put all 3 down and then just state which she thought was the most applicable? should I go back and request her to do that.
thanks
I then found a form which lists all the pip questions and just directly asks the person filling it in to say what care is required e.g. 'need prompting to shower...' sign and date the form. This looked pretty convenient so I asked her to use that instead of write a letter.
1. do u see any problem with submitting a form as such they will both just be making the same point right?
2. for social engagement, my social worker just put 'cannot engage with other people due to experiencing severe psychological distress' while not putting anything about social support or prompting. would it have made more sense for her to put all 3 down and then just state which she thought was the most applicable? should I go back and request her to do that.
thanks
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: , Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, jimmck, Chris