ISAs - a cautionary tale

Gordon wrote: caravanj

I have approved your post on this occasion but would ask you once again to have more sensitivity to the situations that posters find themselves in.

Gordon

Gordon, would you delete my post please so as not to cause any upset to QX81.

I was attemting to get some clarification from him in order that I may have been able to offer him some of my extensive knowledge of the inner workings of the DWP as I worked for the organisation until retiring, the last 25 years in the investigations unit.

However I no longer intend to try & help any other forum members.

caravanj wrote: Just a couple of question because I don't fully understand your situation & how it would have affected the tribunal case.

1: Are you saying you didn't have a clue as what being an appointee meant & didn't receive the very detailed letter which the DWP issue to appointees, explaining your appointee duties?

I'm very pleased to answer as I'm keen to learn from my mistakes and discuss the topic.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the very detailed letter".

In April 2007 I had applied for DLA on behalf of my son, and I vaguely recall a phone call asking if I would become appointee for him. I was sent a letter stating that a compliance officer would be calling at our home on a date in May 2007 and that if that date was inconvenient, I should ring and they would re-arrange the visit.

I was working away at the time, so phoned and was told that an interview was not necessary and that they would send me the BF56 form which I could fill in and post back. I signed and dated this on the May Bank Holiday and the box for the signature of the interviewing office is blank. Obviously, the interview would not have taken place on a Bank Holiday and the absence of the second signature confirms that the interview did not take place.

The only paperwork I got back was the BF57 and the torn off section 8 of the BF56 which should have been removed and left with me at the interview. This tells me very little other than I may be liable to repay any overpayments myself if they arise, but says nothing about capital limits or the circumstances under which repayment may be required.

After a few years of trying and failing to find a job for my son ( WEST, Shaw Trust, Connexions, JCP etc, etc) they suggested that he he should apply for ESA and a social worker completed the process. This was approved and he was place in the support group.

The appointeeship was carried on for ESA from the same one that had been in place for DLA (which I now know is a non means tested benefit.) At the time of ESA application, my son had an ISA in his name but it was a small amount that he had been left by his Grandmother (less than £6k)

I have checked and double checked all correspondence from DWP and it never mentions anywhere the fact that ESA is means tested or the effect that capital has on benefits.

Of course, now I know it does and, with the arrival of the internet, all knowledge is available, but that doesn't mean that we all know everything, because to know the answer to a question, you first have to know that you need to ask the question.

caravanj wrote: 2: How would the lack of knowledge about appointee duties affect whether or not you put as ISA into you son's name?

Effectively I was concerned about my son's future when I'm not here to look after him and put regular amounts into his ISA for his long term security. DWP have accepted that I was acting in his "very best interests but that I was unaware of the rules regarding the effect of capital on means tested benefits".

I was lacking in one crucial piece of knowledge, and that was the effect of capital on benefits. If I had been in possession of that one piece of knowledge, then I would not be in this situation and would not be writing this post.

Had I been interviewed, I would have had the chance to ask about all the things I needed to know, face to face, with an experienced DWP officials and I would expect that he would have told me what I needed to know.

I struggle to think of a voluntary role that would not require some face to face training, or at least an interview to go through the important things - special constable, support worker, support teacher, army reservist, Red Cross, St John's Ambulance etc, etc.

The DWP recognise that appointees are key to the succesfull operation of the benefits system where adults with learning disability are concerned, and they are very keen to find appointees and to get them into the system. They also recognise that there are certain procedures that have to be gone through, and as such they publish a guide for their own officers regarding appointees which can be found

here

It's about 40 pages of pdf, but it makes interesting reading and tells me that the correct procedure was not carried out ..... the word MUST is used quite often.

I strongly feel that I must have some rights in this situation, as their own required procedures were not not followed.

Thank you to all. Just writing about this is making it a bit easier ......

caravanj

I would welcome your comments, please ...... especially regarding the importance (or not) of the lack of an interview.

Could someone here just clarify that if a person receiving ESA IR has an ISA under £6000 (and no other capital) then there are no problems? Or are there special rules regarding ISAs and benefits entitlements?

The way the OP sounds is as if just opening an ISA stops your benefit or something. Just want to make sure as an ISA is a responsible thing to consider for the next tax year.

Thanks.

jnms wrote: Could someone here just clarify that if a person receiving ESA IR has an ISA under £6000 (and no other capital) then there are no problems? Or are there special rules regarding ISAs and benefits entitlements?

The way the OP sounds is as if just opening an ISA stops your benefit or something. Just want to make sure as an ISA is a responsible thing to consider for the next tax year.

Thanks.

Hi jnms,

With respect to The IR ESA means-test, ISA's are included under capital, assets and savings just as cash savings would be.

As long as the value of your ISA when added to any other of your capital, assets and savings does not exceed the £6,000 trigger point, you should not have any deductions made from your IR ESA :

Asset rule for ESA(IR)

I think one of the points that is highlighted from the original post is that HMRC, Banks and Credit Reference Agencies share information with The DWP

bro58