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TOPIC: ESA tribuanal

Reapplying for PIP mid award 3 months 1 week ago #227886

HI,
I would like to ask is it's possible to reapply for PIP as my condition has worsened since my last award (May 2018), and was interested in any thoughts / experiences you could share, advice you could give or resources you could point me towards, I have read the DWP's own advice to their assessors ref which descriptor fits my condition and in my opinion I should now get 12 points and not 10 for my mobility. Assuming a reapplication is allowed, at what point would it be advisable to inform them of their own guidelines to my conditions applicable points score, in the form I return or at the assessment stage? Whether rightly or wrongly I don't entirely trust them to spot it themselves so I would like to get this into the process. Many thanks in advance for your continuing help. Kop.

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Reapplying for PIP mid award 3 months 1 week ago #227910

KoP

What did you score the Mobility points for?

If it was for Moving Around then you can just report a deterioration in your conditions and they will reassess your claim.

If it was for Going Out then you should think carefully before contacting the DWP. Descriptors (e) and (f) of the activity are considered to be mutually exclusive of each other, so if you scored for (e) then you cannot show that you meet the criteria for (f) without fundamentally undermining the reasons you have your current award, so you need to be very certain that you meet the criteria for the higher Descriptor.

If you decide to proceed then write to the DWP office dealing with your claim explaining the changes and asking to be reassessed, if possible send the letter by a Tracked post and retain the proof of delivery information.

Understand that reporting a change will result in a full reassessment of your claim, a new PIP2 and almost certainly a face to face assessment, the resulting Decision will supersede your existing award, whatever it actually is.

Gordon
The following user(s) said Thank You: brian duncan

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Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

Reapplying for PIP mid award 3 months 1 week ago #227916

Hi Gordon,
Just to give you a little more detail... my mobility has declined over the previous 12 months due to my worsening lower back problems, I previously scored 10 for mobility but now find doing even this level of distance, or any short term low level activity for that matter, leaves me unable to do anything other than shuffle around on my stick for hours afterwards and having to lie down to alleviate the pain. Below is the excerpt from the DWP's own guidance...

Worked example 2
2.2.26
Mr Y is able to stand and move with a walking stick. He can walk up to
60 metres at a slightly slowed pace with some discomfort. After this
distance he starts to experience increasing hip pain. He can continue
to walk, but his pace slows even further and after 100 metres he needs
to stop and rest. This takes a lot out of him and for a few hours after, he
is unable to go more than a few steps without experiencing further
severe hip pain. It takes Mr Y between one and two minutes to walk 60
metres the first time.
2.2.27
In the Moving Around activity, the HP should work their way through the
descriptors considering each aspect of reliability, to find the one that
best describes Mr Y’s ability to complete the activity reliably.
A Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or
unaided.
B Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than
200 metres, either aided or unaided.
C Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no
more than 50 metres.
D Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20
metres but no more than 50 metres.
E Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20
metres, either aided or unaided.
F Cannot, either aided or unaided –
(i) stand; or
(ii) move more than 1 metre.


• Safely – there is no evidence that this activity poses any risk to
Mr Y’s safety. He has said he experiences pain but he knows
when to stop and rest. There is no indication that this causes
him any harm
• To an acceptable standard – this is not an issue in this instance
• Repeatedly – Mr Y has to stop and rest after walking 100 metres
and experiences increasing discomfort after the first 60 metres.
It is then several hours before he can walk this distance again.
As this is not as often as would reasonably be expected, Mr Y
cannot be said to complete the activity repeatedly. He can
repeatedly manage a few steps using his stick, which is less
than 20 but more than 1 metre, therefore descriptor E best
describes how he is able to repeatedly move around
• In a reasonable time period –The walking speed which is
deemed within a reasonable time period is 30 metres per
minute. Mr Y can walk the first 60 metres in a minute or two.
Although slower than normal, this is a reasonable time period for
someone to walk this distance and therefore he can complete
the activity in a reasonable time period.
The HP therefore concludes that Mr Y can stand and then move more
than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, and selects descriptor E.

So my thinking is I should be awarded 12 points for the pain caused by having done the low levels of activity or the short distances I'm capable of.

So It looks like reporting a change is the way to go, but what are your thoughts with regard to me letting it be known that I'm aware of the above guidance? should I even do this? will it be frowned upon if I do so? So If I decide to do so should I do it be...
A:- when I report the change
B:- in the form
C:- during the reassessment

Alternatively, do I say nothing of my knowledge of this guidance and trust them to know that this should be taken into account? (but then how do I know they have?). And one last question, when reporting a change should I expect this to be just a quick exercise in getting me a form sent out or will it be more involved and include questions about my condition?

My thanks in advance again for your efforts and the work you do, Kop.

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Reapplying for PIP mid award 3 months 1 week ago #227923

King of pain

So you are arguing that you cannot reliably walk more than 20m on the majority of days?

Do you do anything that contradicts your limited walking, for example; do you go shopping?

A good place to start is to look at what you need to do inside your home, how far away from where you normally sit is your toilet? You will need to measure the distance rather than just guessing it, as the distance you are arguing for is so small you need to be accurate about what you can do. Think about the other places you might walk to in your home and measure these.

There's no point your raising the DWP guidance at this stage, the Decision Maker is going to be led by the assessor's report so until you report the change and are assessed it's not relevant.

Gordon

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Reapplying for PIP mid award 3 months 1 week ago #227939

Hi again,
A little further insight into things for you... because of my condition, for weeks at a time I am not capable of any movement other than using 1 or 2 sticks to shuffle around in agony despite high levels of pain relief, doing only the most basic of tasks (toilet, kitchen) this is down to continuing problems with disc prolapses, (5 in 11 months, including 2 hospitalisations for MRI to rule out the need for emergency surgery) I have Degenerative Disc Disease and Osteoarthritis which also lead to frequent periods (lasting 3/5-12/15 days) of serious pain and great immobility. My "normal" is moving around my flat using a stick, doing one thing at a time and returning to the sofa, the vast majority of my time when I'm up is on sofa, either flat or reclined to get any meaningful relief.
There are good days when I am able to for instance pop out for a light shop for maybe 6/10 items (using a disabled bay at the door, not a 400 yard walk away) or a coffee or visit family etc. These good days number 2/5 per month, so on these days doing any form of activity e.g. sitting for more than a 15/20 minutes or walking more than 50 yards leads to an increase in pain, needing more pain relief, needing to lie down and the inability to do anything else for the remainder of that day, (interestingly their example highlighted someone that could walk a greater distance but suffered because he did so and therefore was given 12 points) hence my thinking should I be pursuing this as doing anything which involves being stood / sat for too long or walking any more than 50M causes me added pain and distress? Looking at it from a slightly different angle... Im capable of only a little but if I try to do more I cause more suffering so should that get me the additional points? again my thinking being would this additional suffering in conjunction to the 25 or 30 weeks I can barely move due to the back issues I have warrant reclaiming? hope this makes sence, My thanks again.

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Reapplying for PIP mid award 3 months 1 week ago #227944

King of pain

Your going out for a "light shop" will argue against your being so restricted, 20m is a very short distance, my toilet is 7.6m from where is sit so a round trip is just over 15m, so it is likely that you will have actually walked several hundred metres while shopping!

You will need to be very careful when explaining what you do when you go out, in particular how you do but more importantly how often you actually can.

The test looks first at the distance you can reliably walk on the majority of days so concentrate on this first. The after effects of your walking should be taken into account so detail these as well. Then think about the manner of your walking, it would be worth your timing yourself over a set distance to work out the speed of your walking, also if you have to stop, explain how long you have to and why.

Gordon

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