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TOPIC: possible PIP re assesment early next year...

possible PIP re assesment early next year... 1 month 2 weeks ago #220155

Dear Gordon and staff, I Hope things are better for you now and I wish you well.
The main reason for your help is that my husband’s PIP runs out early 2020 so I am preparing myself and him for a possible early re assessment in early 2019, after a brief note I have questions about how best to gather evidence, this will be Questions 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 at the end.
My husband had a face to face a couple of years ago transferring from DLA - PIP he got 2 points for daily living and 4 for Mobility, The H.P. at the face to face lied and altered my information both verbally and on paper to what we had said [even saying he wasn’t on anti-depressants and medication low, in fact he is on anti-depressants and at the highest rate], this was then used as evidence in the Descriptors to downplay my husband’s illness, I can only regard this as criminal.
Anyway after a Mandatory assessment he was awarded 11 points for daily living and 4 for mobility [we believe some points were correct but a few were wrong including:-
EATING AND DRINKING, No points awarded, but due to his O.C.D and Depression I have to prompt him to try to eat whilst the meal is warm. In the Decision makers letter and I quote:- “At the assessment you were noted to be of average build and did not appear malnourished, you told the assessor you eat everyday, Therefore it is likely you can manage this unaided.” Anyway they totally ignored the truth and come up with a pathetic statement in the letter to award zero points. [Please see question 1 later]
Just a note that earlier in the year my husband has been diagnosed with PERIODONTAL DISEASE [Gum Disease] so I’m having to now prompt and help him even more as he suffers pain in his gum and tooth areas, this along with constant appointments with the hygienist is making things worse and more depressed for him including the prospect of the re assessment and possible face to face.
Gathering evidence for possible early re assessment, we rarely have contact with his G.P. as have been parked so to say and the practice has a phone first policy so face to face is rare, just to add his original long term G.P. has retired and the replacement also has retired all within a year so his new G.P. of only a few months has not been seen yet , he is awaiting specialist help as regards possibly altering medication but the waiting list is very long, he is seeing a Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner at the moment.
Question 1. EATING AND DRINKING, as he scored zero points if I come to the re assessment form I’m confused about if asked when problems first happened should I put down the facts that prompting was needed many years ago or as things are worse now with his gum disease put down this year ?
Question 2. How best should we go about first seeing his new G.P. and giving an update on his condition? I was thinking of going through the G.P. Factual form [is ESA113 03/11 the latest correct version? [Does this also apply with PIP] And in letter form indicate his illnesses and problems this causes in daily life so as to update her computer. On meeting the new G.P. is it best to come straight out with my husband’s PIP Re assessment is due and we would like to give a recent update on his condition and problems he has with Daily living?
As the G.P. is new do you think I should bring a Personal Independence Payments Claimant Request for GP comment form with me and ask her to go through with it there and then or wait till the re assessment form arrives?
Question 3. Would a letter from his Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner containing his illnesses and problems associated with Daily living be brought along to a meeting with his G.P.

Question 4. Do you think that the PIP re assessment form will be (1043/AR1) with tick boxes or possibly a newer version? Again we completed the initial DLA-PIP transfer long PIP version a couple of years back.
Question 5. As we both had a dreadful time with the face to face, would they send him again even after the successful Mandatory assessment appeal last time, the prospect of my husband going to the same place and a possible meeting again with the same Health professional would be devastating as my husband’s view now is what is the point in going on as they won’t read or listen to the facts we say anyway and put down what they want.

I am very sorry for all the questions but I am a bit muddled as how best to approach various people for evidence and make sure his Doctors notes are up to date, Thank you again.

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possible PIP re assesment early next year... 1 month 2 weeks ago #220161

Bodge

Q1. I would go with the prompting, the problem with using the Gum Disease is that it's likely to be seen as a temporary condition and the DM may decide that it does not meet the nine month requirement for an award.

You mention your partner has OCD do they have rituals around their food? Did you describe these in the previous claim form? You need to explain why the prompting is necessary to their eating a meal and what would happen if the prompting was not available. The idea that they are of normal stature indicates nothing if they receive the prompting every day.

Are there any other activities where they would need prompting if there are then this would re-enforce the need for Taking Nutrition.

Q2. Start by going and seeing them and explain about the current award and the upcoming reassessment, you need their willing involvement in the process so go to the appointment with a blank page but have a list of options available if the GP has no ideas of their own. The PIP2 is one option but ideally, you want the GP to discover the information themselves through their questioning.

Q3. Yes, this is also an option and I would source the information even if the GP has no interest.

Q4. We are still seeing both versions of the AR1 being sent out but this may just be down to the DWP using up the old forms. I would prepare for the new version and if you are sent the old one then it should be easy to still use the content, you can prepare it on a computer and attach it to either version rather than having to fill the form in by hand.

Q5. There has been little consistency about claimants having to attend a F2F at reassessment so I can't even say whether this will be a requirement or not. Did you complain about the assessor last time? If you did then this would be a reason for asking for a different assessor.

You do have the option of recording the assessment, you will need to do it and it is no guarantee of a fair report but it will give you some additional ammo if you need it.

Gordon
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Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

possible PIP re assesment early next year... 1 month 2 weeks ago #220169

Hi Bodge

As far as tackling your new GP - I would make an appointment and go and see them yourself on behalf of your husband first. This is allowable (I've done it). I would say why you are there by yourself ... the distress to your husband etc - say he has a pip reassessment and will need their help and next time you will come along with your husband. Remember you only have 8mins for an appointment. If you turn up the first time with your husband and new doctor is trying to assess him and think what to say on a form it will be too much. Second time round - will be much easier and you have plenty of time to do this. Personally I draft the letter I want for them and they are willing to do that - it saves them work. Obviously not everyone is comfortable with that.

When you actually get the date for the reassessment - get the well being practitioner to write an up to date letter. In my experience (husband and myself) - these are the type of letters which carry weight, because they have more frequent contact than the GP and often more intimate knowledge of the impact of any condition on the claimants life. Obviously this does not negate having one from the GP.

Good luck
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possible PIP re assesment early next year... 1 month 2 weeks ago #220199

Dear Gordon and staff, Thank you most kindly for your advice, Here are a few answers to your questions [please edit or delete areas if you think more privacy is needed] :-
Question 1. You mention your partner has OCD do they have rituals around their food? Did you describe these in the previous claim form?
My husband does have rituals regarding everything he does including meal times even down to knife and fork which he feels ok and good with, I observe him for a better word “playing/re arranging” with his food or turning his plate and tea cup,
I have just checked the original PIP claim form and I’m annoyed to say that I did not mention much about his OCD but rather his Depression and prompting him to start his food etc.
[Please edit or delete completely if you think more privacy is needed and you get the idea of what was said as this comes directly from the M.R.]
In the Mandatory reconsideration I made more of a point about the reason given not to award points as regards malnourishment, here are the exact reply I gave in the mandatory reconsideration to challenge:-
“The reported difficulties with taking nutrition are inconsistent with the MSE as he appeared to be average build. He does not have any specialist involvement. Within the informal observations he did not appear to be malnourished. He reports in the Functional history that he will have something to eat everyday. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.
Point 1.:- Quote “he will have something to eat everyday but his wife has to encourage him to eat”.
This then surely alone must be accepted into the descriptor taking Nutrition and indeed ***** needs Prompting and Encouragement :-
Point 2.:- Quote – “he did not appear to be malnourished. He reports in the Functional history that he will have something to eat everyday. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.
Never once have I Said that ***** does not eat, without doubt It is a fact that without my Assistance, Support, Supervision, Encouragement and Constant Prompting everyday then indeed ***** would not eat and not bother with food or suffer with malnutrition and possibly death.
Question 2. Are there any other activities where they would need prompting if there are then this would re-enforce the need for Taking Nutrition.
Yes Gordon they accepted and gave points for my husband in the following along with their words:-
PREPARING FOOD “You need prompting from another person to prepare or cook a simple meal” 2 Points.
MANAGING YOUR TREATMENTS “You either need an aid or appliance to manage your medication, or you need supervision, prompting or assistance from another person to manage your medication or monitor your health condition.” 1 Point.
WASHING AND BATHING “You need supervision or prompting from another person to wash or bathe” 2 Points.
DRESSING AND UNDRESSING “You either need another person to tell you to get dressed or undressed, how to do it or when to keep your clothes on, or that you need prompting or assistance to select appropriate clothing” 2 Points.
MIXING WITH OTHER PEOPLE “You need to be prompted by another person to make complex budgeting decisions” 2 Points.
MAKING BUDGETING DECISIONS “You need prompting or assistance from another person to make complex budgeting decisions” 2 Points.
Daily living points total 11
Question 3 Did you complain about the assessor last time?
No I didn’t Gordon, I know I should have but to be honest I was drained and fed up of the whole thing, by the way I had to wait ages as they had lost my Mandatory assessment appeal, I’m getting to the point of needing help myself as I can’t cope with it all and have lost faith in any possible face to face or decisions.
I have a couple of last minute questions:-
QUESTION 1:- in the possible re assessment letter should I mention at all my husband would not feel ok about a possible face to face with the H.P after the fiasco before. [Mention name and place of last PIP face to face]
QUESTION 2:- Would they look at his last award and the original or Mandatory reconsideration application?
I am so sorry for all the questions etc. I feel so sorry that you have so much to do yourself in answering not only my questions but many others, I only hope this nightmare and persecution ends soon, Thank you again.

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possible PIP re assesment early next year... 1 month 2 weeks ago #220207

Bodge

I think you will have more success with the Taking Nutrition by talking about how you have to overcome his rituals in order to get him to eat. I know this can upsetting but I would go into them in detail and in particular the time it takes to overcome them. I would still mention the depression but you seem to have more support for the OCD.

It's definitely worth your asking for a different assessor to be assigned to any face to face but without a complaint, I think you may struggle to show Good Cause for not going ahead with an assessment if it is the same person.

The intention of the AR1 Review form is for it to be reviewed in conjunction with the claimant's previous forms and reports. The PIP Claim covers this form and some of the issues that it presents.

Gordon
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possible PIP re assesment early next year... 1 month 15 hours ago #221220

Dear Gordon, thank you for the information, I hope you and your fellow colleagues are well, just to add [Questions 1-5]:-
1. He now wishes that he had a male at the face to face as was embarrassed to add a few private details so could he ask for a male at the face to face instead of female ?.
2. In any re assessment form for PIP would they use the Mandatory Reconsideration evidence we successfully submitted but explain more on the eating and drinking [which scored zero points] I’m worried that even in the Mandatory Reconsideration they still sided with the original face to face that “as he was not malnourished he therefore could do this task ok” this was the only one that was not changed correctly.
3. In any re assessment form for PIP should we say that he has already had a face to face recently and many years ago [D.L.A.] in the hope that we don’t go through the hell and with immense pressure to correct the incredible lies and false assumptions last time?.
4. Do you think that when we meet his new Doctor that we should show the doctor a list of problems he has in undertaking daily living as regarding the Descriptors?.
5. His last E.S.A. [support group] was over four years ago, I can’t seem to find the phone number in the forum that we should ring, what do I exactly ask for when we ring to find out when he might be re assessed and would this trigger a re assessment?.
Thank you so much again.

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