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19 May 2011

The main purpose of  replacing DLA with PIP is to reduce the cost of the benefit by 20% by making the criteria more difficult to meet.  In this extract from the Benefits and Work PIP guide, based on what we know so far about PIP, we look at who is most likely to lose out when they are moved from DLA to PIP.  But do bear in mind that the current activities and descriptors are draft ones only, they may change before they are finalised.

Moving around indoors
If your award is based in a large part on difficulties you have with moving around indoors then it may be under threat.

There is little, if any, reference to moving around indoors in the PIP daily living activities.  It would appear that mobility issues will only score points in relation to the mobility component, which according to DWP guidance looks at your ability to move around outdoors. 

The current DLA claim pack has a section on ‘Moving around indoors’ which covers such issues as difficulties walking around, using stairs, getting in and out of a chair and transferring from a wheelchair.

PIP daily living activities, on the other hand, seem to exclude such things as problems with using stairs or with moving around generally. For example, the definition of ‘toilet needs’ appears to be so tightly drawn that it excludes any consideration of whether a claimant needs help getting to and from the toilet, although problems getting on and off the toilet will be taken into account.

In addition, transferring from one seated position to another is listed under mobility for PIP rather than being considered as a daily living activity.

Night-time needs

Claimants who get the middle rate of the care component of DLA for night-time needs only may struggle to get an award of PIP.

Under DLA, care needs that are too few or brief to attract an award in the day may get an award of the middle rate of the care component if they take place at night. Under PIP no distinction is made between day and night needs.  In fact, night is not mentioned in any of the daily living activities.

Nor is there any mention of help needed with getting into bed or getting out of bed or with help needed when you are in bed in the  PIP daily living activities.

Supervision

There is little reference to supervision needs under PIP.  The guidance states that there is a requirement that activities can be carried out safely.  So, if you need someone to keep you safe when cooking a meal, for example, this will be taken into account. 

But, under DLA a claimant who has severe epilepsy, for example, may get an award because they need supervision in case they have a seizure.  People who are prone to falling indoors because of Parkinson’s may get an award of the middle or higher rate of the care component of DLA. Similarly, someone who may be a danger to themselves or other people because of a mental health condition might, under DLA, get an award of the middle or higher rate of the care component. 

Under PIP there is no award whatsoever specifically for supervision needs.  Instead, it looks like claimants will need to show how they are a danger to themselves or other people in relation to specific activities, such as cooking, managing medication and communicating in order to try to get an award of the daily living component.

Medication
If your award of DLA  is based in a large part on the help that you need with managing medication or monitoring your health condition then it is likely to be more difficult for you to get an award of  PIP.  This is because, astonishingly, taking medication and help with therapy are the only two activities that are classed as ‘low scoring’. 

This means that, for example, someone who needs help with dressing can score more points for that activity than someone who needs help with taking vital medication or with life-preserving therapy.

Communication
Problems with communication will still potentially attract an award under PIP.  But it seems that the criteria will be very much more strict.  The very lowest points scoring descriptor is 9(b) which is ‘Can communicate only with communication support’.  The definition given of ‘communication support’ is:

 ‘either support from a person trained to communicate with people with limited communication abilities - for example, lip speakers - or from appropriate aids or appliances.’

So, claimants who need help with communication from friends and family who are not ‘trained’  are unlikely to score points unless their problems with communication are so severe that they cause such things as uncontrollable distress or uncontrollable behaviour.

Communication is listed as a high scoring activity, but there must still be a strong suspicion that simply being deaf and needing trained support to communicate will not, on its own, be sufficient to attract an award of PIP.

Social and leisure

In relation to DLA it was accepted, after hard fought legal battles, that disabled people have a right to enjoy an ordinary life, which includes social and leisure activities, in the same way as people who are not disabled.

In the PIP scoring system, there is no mention whatsoever of help needed with social and leisure activities.  It seems that help with anything other than the most basic of human activities will not be relevant when scoring points for PIP.

Cooking a main meal
The’ main meal’ or ‘cooking’ test is an important route to the lower rate of the care component of DLA for many thousands of sick and disabled people. 

PIP has a similar ‘Preparing and cooking’ activity.  It also has a separate ‘Planning and buying food and drink’ activity which looks at your ability to work out what food and drink you need, to plan your  budget and to buy things, but not to actually physically get to and move around in a shop.  Though it should be noted that you will only score points if you need ‘continual’ prompting or assistance with planning or with buying.

However, the PIP cooking test has some important differences from DLA.  For example, a ‘simple meal’ can be made using ‘fresh or frozen ingredients’ which may mean, regardless of the DWP guidance, that the decision maker need not take into account problems with peeling and chopping.

The higher scoring descriptors also require the claimant to show that they need ‘continual’ prompting or assistance with either preparing or cooking a meal, not just help with some parts of the activity.  This  is very different from DLA, where showing that there is any one part of the activity that you cannot manage without help is sufficient to get an award.

The very highest scoring cooking descriptors require you to be unable to cook using a microwave without continual help or to be unable to prepare even a simple uncooked snack  without continual help.

Until we know much more about the points scoring system we won’t know whether even the highest scoring descriptor in this activity would lead to an award of PIP. But what is clear is that many people who currently pass the main meal test will score few, if any points, under the PIP test.

Mobility
It will not be possible to predict who may lose out in relation to mobility until the points system has been published.  However, it is worth noting that in relation to the ‘Planning and following a journey’ activity, your ability to plan and follow a journey by car, bus or train will be taken into account – not just your ability to walk outdoors.

In relation to moving around, to score the higher points you will need either to be unable to propel your manual wheelchair 50 metres or more, be reliant on a powered wheelchair, be unable to move at all or be unable to transfer.  Simply being unable to walk 50 metres or more with the aid of a walking stick or frame, for example, is only (d) out of descriptors (a)-(g), with (g) being the highest scoring descriptor.  There is a real possibility then, that the level of mobility problems that currently attracts an award of higher rate mobility for DLA will be insufficient for an award of the enhanced rate of the mobility component of PIP.

Please check back for updates on this issue as more details of the scoring system are published by the DWP.  In the meantime, you can download our 17 page guide to the draft PIP assessment procedure from this page.  The guide includes details of how to take part in the DWP’s consultation on the PIP assessment criteria.

Comments

+2 #62 David 2011-06-02 23:26
Roll on death being disabled is a bloody failure!
+2 #61 Peter Andrews 2011-05-31 22:42
I think you will fing that most charities and organisations such as Royal British Legion, SSSAF cancer research ect are challenging at every hurdle. Certainly the 2 organisations that I am a member of are?
It also needs individuals to bombard there MP and Euro MP's. Remember it is team work and only by sticking together will we win!
To many people sitting back relying on others. If this was France the bill would not have got a hearing!
+3 #60 Jeffrey 2011-05-31 15:38
I too owe a great deal to B&W who made the deliberately difficult process of applying for DLA possible, and success achievable. I have advanced progressive MS and tick most of the current boxes, but shudder at the news that in my condition I may struggle to score any points. From the current description a 20% saving looks positively understated!
With a Labour MP I feel my cries for help would have little affect on our governing class, so I will write to my Euro MP, who although Labour also, lives in a world that positively hates independent GB and may just take up the fight.
What do you think B&W? This is such a major threat, us mere individuals need a banner and a champion to get behind, otherwise we may lose this fight big time. I particularly like the idea that this is discrimination against the disabled and weak, and unlike the workshy target, the only possible reason for this review is to take away the incomes of the most vulnerable in our nation.
Reply please!
#59 karim 2011-05-28 23:36
i recived a latter that i have to call ESA some kind of new Benefit.they will sand me a formcalled Limited Capability for work . What is happening to this place
+4 #58 Jasper13 2011-05-26 18:56
Quote:
I`m wondering the same, and also wondering why the big charities are not challenging these cuts in the European court of Human rights, its discrimination agains the disabled.
Good point, I have also been thinking this, it's like no-one is prepared to tie there colours to the mast, as they have done such a great propaganda coup for people on benefits i.e. They are all lazy work shy benefit cheats, this seems to be the position of the mainstream media, newspapers in particular.
This country is ruined, there are no real jobs, that we could take if we get kicked off benefits, and no thought of re-training anyone as they have so many people to choose from. There does seem to be a real sadistic streak to all the rules and regulations they want to implement, or is it the law of the jungle where only the fittest and selfish will survive?
#57 Jim Allison 2011-05-24 10:46
Quote:
I too could or will loose out if all this happens I no there will be changes , but honest wait untill they happen , we don't no for sure whats going to change . Your all going to put your self in an early grave for worrying . just wait and see , this site has it's good points but boy does it have it's bad . But just remember everyone this site will help you get through these changes it helps you win your cases .



Jim DLA moderator
It helps you apeall and many win , I did .
I think it's a bit scare mongering going on . Wait till it happens keep fighting against it , lobby your mp . But don't sit and spend what crap life you have making it even worse on things that maynot be But I damned if I going worry my self any sicker over talk that isent even in stone yet . Thanks to this site I won my dla and I extend to win the pips what ever it's called . So you lot will get the info and help you need to win , but I do wish this site would not worry people with what maybe .
We'd be glad if you could let us know what you feel are the bad points about the site, and we'll do our best to deal with them.

Jim - Moderator
+2 #56 pannerman 2011-05-23 14:52
Rachel is right to say not to worry ourselves to an early grave but this site is not worrying us, it is simply keeping us informed. I need my motablity car, without I would never be able to see my grnadchildren. I cannot reach the bus stop at one end and I cannot walk up the hill at the other end. Sure I am concerned but let's wait and see and, because of Benefit and Work, be better prepared.
#55 profess4fname 2011-05-23 13:40
webmaster test post
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk
#54 rachel 2011-05-22 21:55
I too could or will loose out if all this happens I no there will be changes , but honest wait untill they happen , we don't no for sure whats going to change . Your all going to put your self in an early grave for worrying . just wait and see , this site has it's good points but boy does it have it's bad . But just remember everyone this site will help you get through these changes it helps you win your cases .
It helps you apeall and many win , I did .
I think it's a bit scare mongering going on . Wait till it happens keep fighting against it , lobby your mp . But don't sit and spend what crap life you have making it even worse on things that maynot be But I damned if I going worry my self any sicker over talk that isent even in stone yet . Thanks to this site I won my dla and I extend to win the pips what ever it's called . So you lot will get the info and help you need to win , but I do wish this site would not worry people with what maybe .
+1 #53 carruthers 2011-05-22 19:17
@Annubis

I thought that your situation might be as you described, but I felt that others might misread it (even if you were aware that DLA was not an out-of-work benefit). You stress, rightly that many of would like to be able to work - for one thing disability (especially through chronic illness) is BORING, LONELY AND HUMILIATING as well as badly paid!

BUT the issue of work is one which is a separate issue, and I do feel we have to keep banging this drum until at least the ministers and civil servants in charge of this train wreck of a reform recognise the difference between ESA and DLA. I'm note sure whether we need to educate the public first, and hope the government follows or vice versa.

We have to try - I even try to post sense on the D Mail site.
#52 Jim Allison 2011-05-22 15:55
Don't forget that many of the items for PIP are still at the discussion stage and before they become law, they need approval from both Houses of Parliament.

Full details of the analysis of Steve's guide can be found the links below:

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-draft-assessment-regulations.pdf

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-draft-assessment-criteria-note.pdf

Jim
#51 susieb 2011-05-22 15:39
I have just emailed my MP and have contacted family and other disabled people that I know and asked them to do the same.
+2 #50 Sue Horrocks 2011-05-22 10:40
Im sorry to say this Ananda, but "They dont care" because whilst you are here then they think you should keep on doing what you are doing, as long as they dont have to pay for anyones help they will leave it all up to you, and when the time comes when you go gie they wont be in power any more so it wont be their problem, This is how I think this none careing government is doing things, they DONT CARE for no-one but themselves,
Again its thanks to this:- www.benefitsandwork.co.uk that have helped so many of us since this sight got going, letting us know just what is going on, and helping us along the way how to do things about getting help I say a BIG thank you to all who work on this sight & hope they keep up the great work they are doing, that helps some of us carry on fighting so to speak for our rights.
Good Luck Ananda,
+1 #49 Dee 2011-05-22 10:20
this worries me because if i lost my hrm I would be stuck in the house because i wont have my powerchair to get me out of the house. I have a manual chair but find it hard to push any distance before I am totally knackered for the rest of the day.

My powerchair is my life line as it means I can get out of the house. I currently get MRC which helps with some of the things i need. dee
#48 Annubis 2011-05-22 02:01
Hi Carruther's,

I am sorry to have to correct you - I am not entitled to ESA even though I can't work, so I should be getting DLA. I get a small amount of income support, and this prevents me applying for ESA.
I know some people who are disabled do work, however, my comment was in respect of those who can't - as there are "many" who can't work (and can't claim ESA either) and that is the perspective I was posting it from. That is why I stated "Don't they realise that MANY people on DLA would love to be independent and work?" - I was not including "all" people in my wording, I used the word "many" instead, for the very reason that I am aware that some do work while claiming DLA. I hope that has helped clarify things. :)
+5 #47 Lyn Clarke 2011-05-22 00:06
I agree about the possible loss of a Motability car. Having one gives me some kind of life which I cannot have without my car.

What really annoys me is the disengenuous way in which this is being dealt with by the government. Why don't they just come out and say what their intentions are. They are cowards and liars.

I just don't understand how they can possibly think that I would rather live on the pittance I get from incapacity benefit than return to work to earn £30,000.

God help us all!
#46 Ananda 2011-05-21 22:12
My daughter has severe learning difficulties. How is attending a medical going to diagnose her problems? It would be excessively stressful for her and of course she couldn't go on her own. She has no siblings and I'm worried sick about what happens to her when I die. She has no prospects as she has the mental age of a 2-5 year old.
#45 tipsy 2011-05-21 18:06
If only.
#44 tipsy 2011-05-21 18:05
You are so right, been wondering the same thing myself, when will someone start the ball rolling and challenge this gov, on the UN convention of human rights.?
+5 #43 tipsy 2011-05-21 18:03
I`m wondering the same, and also wondering why the big charities are not challenging these cuts in the European court of Human rights, its discrimination agains the disabled.

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