Advanced Search

Client was receiving UC, ESA and PIP June 2019-Feb 2023 due to severe Post Viral Fatigue/CFS/Fibromyalgia.

Their Health had improved somewhere in the new year so she took up a remote 6-month temp contract
Finished in August 2023, but has now relapsed with health, Currently on PIP awaiting re-assessment.
Can’t re-claim new style ESA as they haven’t paid enough NI 2 contributions
Refused UC, due to the flat that they own a flat London which they had to move out of in June 19 due to ill health.
Intends to move back once better, so doesn’t wish to sell it. Tenants rent doesn’t cover the mortgage/service charge.
Even whilst working the 6 month contract, required care from parent.

In 2019, it was accepted that the premises in London was disregarded as capital and yielding income H2038 regarding Premises which has not been occupied as the home and H2038 of H2 Capital Disregards for advice for decision makers.

On 1st Dec 2023 was refused UC due to capital totals more than £16,000.

Could the above argument about UC still be valid despite it being 3 years ago since they moved back to Sheffield.
They do intend to return to the London flat when well enough, but have only been well enough to work remotely from home with care and support.

If not, would it be worth paying voluntary NI2 contributions for the last two tax years so they can claim New style ESA? (aware that can only be done 6 weeks afterwards, so UC would be preferable) - also previously done this and HMRC questioned why and if they wanted a refund.


Thank you in advance.

Sadly only 51 mps voted against these plans so I dont hold out much hope that if labour get in things will be any better. A group called Organise who work for workers rights have started a petition and currently have 54000 signatures which they need to get up to a 100,000. They also ask you write to your mp. The only way the govt will stop is if people make it known they wont put up with it. If you feel able write to your mp, give organise a small donation to distribute the petition and sign it.

Hi Debbie

We do not yet know how things will work out, a lot of speculation in the press, we will just have to wait and see how it pans out.

I cannot see how you can move from IR ESA to CB ESA unless you are already in receipt of CB ESA with a top up of IR ESA.

A previous member has asked the question, how will banks know only to monitor bank accounts customers who are on a means tested benefit? I have absolutely no idea, again no information has been given out as to how the plan will work, but it does sound tough. 🏋️‍♀️

I believe an election is coming up.🤫

Gary

Does anyone know if the government’s plans to force the disabled and mentally ill to work especially to work from home (even if they have previously been deemed unfit to work) apply to those on contributions based ESA as well as income related ESA?

I am on income related ESA but may be being moved to contributions based ESA

The only small consolation is that I believe the forthcoming monitoring of bank accounts of claimants may only apply to those on means tested benefits. Is that correct?

If in addition I would not be forced into work under the strict Back to Work Plan because I am not on a means tested benefit this would soften the blow of losing a few hundred pounds a month by moving from income related ESA to contributions based ESA

Sorry to ask a few things at once but I am finding it all a bit stressful as I may be moving into a flat my Mum owns hence maybe meaning my own flat is then seen as capital plus all the talk of being forced into home work I know would put me back into hospital is stressing me out

Hi sonnyboyo

CB ESA will be deducted from your UC £ for £ but it is paid fortnightly, some claimants state that it helps them to budget better as UC is paid monthly, it also pays class 1 NI contributions.

If your circumstances changes, i.e, win the lottery, get an inheritance then your UC may stop but your CB ESA would carry on.

I don't see any disadvantages apart from having to undergo re-assessments but then you also get that on UC if you are placed in the LCWRA group.

Gary

S

The issue exists for legacy ESA claimants receiving the IR component only. If they exceed the earnings or savings limits then they lose entitlement to their legacy ESA and their only option when the issue is resolved is for them to claim UC.

If a claimant is receiving legacy ESA through their NI Contributions as you are then losing entitlement to the IR component still leaves the ESA claim open and if at some time, they regain entitlement to IR then this can be done by an update to their legacy ESA claim with no need to claim UC

That said, they should check their circumstances as they may be better off claiming UC, which can be done whilst retaining the ESA CB. But this is not simple and there could be other reasons to stay on the legacy ESA such as pension income being disregarded.

Gordon

Hi Gary,
Many thanks for taking the time to respond with such detailed advice!

It is very much appreciated!

My son has made NI contributions via his employment with the Army, for the past 8 years.

He initially applied for New Style ESA post his Army discharge, which was acknowledged by DWP, as was his submitted Fit Note.

DWP also acknowledged the fact that his partner is also his carer.

His local DWP Office then instigated a UC claim, awarded him an advance UC payment, then told him that he does not qualify for UC!

My son is not in receipt of Armed Forces Independence Payment at the moment, but this is pending a review of his Tier of Discharge!

He is however, in receipt of PIP, being awarded 10 points for both Daily Living and Mobility components.

Many thanks!
UC

Hi UC

I will try and answer you post as best I can from the information you have supplied but I would advise you to seek help from your local Welfare Rights Organisation (WRO) who will be able to take all your son's circumstances into consideration. advicelocal.uk .

I will start with NS ESA; New Style ESA is a Contribution Based benefit and is not means tested with the exception of pension income which can reduce the amount that you receive.

The Income Related benefit that goes with NS ESA is Universal Credit.

There are two Contribution Conditions that you need to meet for a new claim for New Style ESA.

Both are based on the two Tax Years preceding the current Benefit year, for 2023 they are 2020-21 and 2021-22.

The Second Condition requires a minimum of 50 weeks of either NI Contributions and/or NI Credits, your current Credits Only award potentially covers this.

The First however requires a minimum of 26 weeks of NI Contributions in either of the two years, your current claim does not provide these, Contributions can only be acquired through paid employment, there are some exceptions but you don't mention any of these in your post.

Applying for UC is a bit more complicated as it would depend if your son was eligible to claim LCW/LCWRS, if he was or if he has children, then they would be eligible to claim the Work Allowance, as they have a mortgage and do not pay rent then they would get the high rate before the Earnings Taper is taken into account. This is why your son needs to seek specialist advice from your local WRO.

When you apply for UC, you can ask for an advanced payment as UC will take over 5 weeks to claim, the advanced payment is recovered from on going UC claim, usually over 1 - 2 years.

From your post I am not aware if your son receives Armed forces independence payment, I would advise you to contact Veterans UK helpline: 0808 191 4218, you could also contact The Royal British Legion for advice and support, 0808 802 8080.

Gary

I am posting this with a heartfelt plea for advice and out of sheer desperation on behalf of my son.

My desperation is due to my son’s treatment at the hands of DWP which is contributing to a significant deterioration in his mental health.

This appalling treatment will be dealt with separately by my good self via alternative channels. It really is extremely frustrating when you are in poor health to be treated so appallingly by DWP, as we all know only too well!.

I would very much appreciate it if you could take the time to advise exactly what entitlement to ESA or Universal Credit my son is entitled to, based on the summary of his situation below:

My son was medically discharged from the British Army due to a serious back injury, for which the Army have admitted full liability for.

My son has paid First Class NI contributions for the eight years that he was serving the Army.

He is currently incapable of work and has a Fit Note up until February 2024 and this will be extended further.

He lives with his partner in a mortgaged property.

His partner earns £1,400 per month.

My son received a UC amount of £756 in November that he assumed was his monthly award of UC.

DWP are now claiming that this payment was an ‘Advance payment’. Advance of what?

He was contacted today (30/11/23) by his ‘Life Coach’ to be advised that he is no longer entitled to any UC Benefit whatsoever, based upon his partner’s salary of £1,400 per month.

My son is no longer receiving any income at all.

Given my son's situation, is this advice from DWP factually correct?

Where is the financial ‘Safety Net’ for people like him who, through no fault of their own, are injured whilst employed and no longer able to work for the foreseeable future and have no income?

What about his NI contributions? Surely he is entitled to claim New Style ESA? Has he been given incorrect advice by DWP?

I would very much appreciate any advice that this forum might be in a position to provide, for the sake of my son’s sanity and financial future moving forward!

You would still be entitled to contributions based DWP Benefits and PIP. But you would lose all entitlement to means tested Benefits as your flat would be an asset worth more than £16,000.

Hi riversong

To answer your question, we need specific information, the majority of claimants in receipt of JSA are based on contributions and therefore not means tested, although I have come across claimants who receive JSA not based on contributions, which is rare, but as Gordon previously stated you are eligible for the Cost of Living Payment of £300 if you were entitled to a payment (or later found to be entitled to a payment) of Universal Credit for an assessment period that ended in the period 18 August 2023 to 17 September 2023.

I would advise you to seek help from your local Welfare Rights Organisation; advicelocal.uk they will be able to take all your circumstances into consideration.

Gary

Good evening,
I know you will be getting plenty of queries about today’s Autumn Statement. I am aware scrapping wca changes are to new claimants and not me, if it comes in at all….

It will be interesting what happens to me ?

I am at present and have been for many years, qualified for LCWRA based on 15 pts for mobility activity on contributions ESA support Group. I am due an ESA reassessment in March 2025 ( no WCA if it comes in force 2025 ) and as you have probably read this activity has been scrapped. I am also on PIp due for reassessment May 2027.

I Wonder if my assessment will go ahead ? Or if it will be deferred again and no further WCA will be needed for me in the future as I claim PIP.

Hi Cemily

It can be confusing, between legay ESA and NS ESA, there is no differece between the forms IR ESA is means tested and CB ESA and NS ESA are both based on NI contributions.

We are quite often asked about ESA but we are not told which one so we can not answer the question without knowing the full facts. If you had paper assessments the the report is called a ESA85a

Yes they can take PIP into account as they do have access to the reports.

Gary

Hi I have recently been awarded the Scottish version of Pip (ADP) I have been in the ESA support group for a number of years but dont receive any payments from the DWP and I don't claim universal credit either so receive no money from them at all however i do get NI credits for my ESA, do I have to tell the DWP that I'm now recieving ADP??
Also as I'm 61 and have already enough years NI contributions to get the full state pension (37 full years ) would it make any difference to my current ADP award and future reviews if I were to stop claiming ESA?
Thank you in advance

Hi Aeowen

There are two Contribution Conditions that you need to meet for a new claim for New Style ESA.

Both are based on the two Tax Years preceding the current Benefit year, for 2023 they are 2020-21 and 2021-22.

The Second Condition requires a minimum of 50 weeks of either NI Contributions and/or NI Credits, your current Credits Only award potentially covers this.

The First however requires a minimum of 26 weeks of NI Contributions in either of the two years, your current claim does not provide these, Contributions can only be acquired through paid employment, there are some exceptions but you don't mention any of these in your post.

Gary

We have made a claim for esa ni contribution. Received a letter saying cannot pay as 2021/22 no national insurance contributions have been paid for that year. My employer said I had enough years to qualify for my pension. And did not pay those contributions as I never reached the threshold of income. There was no “ticky box” to pay NI type 2. And if I was to pay contributions it would go to type 3 which is pension based. I was laid off in August 2023. So my NI contributions won’t be paid for 2022/23 and 2023/24. I will not qualify for benefits at all. But mainly esa national insurance contribution based. Can I pay my national insurance for those missed years. Mainly I want to claim so my national insurance will be accredited in the future.

Hi Olive

Cannot give you an answer as NS ESA is based on your NI contributions.

If you receive NI 'credits' these only count towards the second contribution condition for NS ESA, the first condition depends on the NI contributions that you have actually paid in the relevant tax year.

I would advise you to seek help from your local Welfare Rights Organisation; advicelocal.uk

Gary

Hi charm7

PIP and NS ESA are completely different benefits and have different descriptors.

In answer to your first three questions the answer is ....... No

You do not have a claimant commitment for NS ESA, you have a claimant commitment if you apply for Universal Credit.

When you apply for NS ESA you will be asked to complete a WCA form; To get New Style ESA you’ll need to have been an employee or self-employed and paid (or been credited with) National Insurance contributions, usually in the last 2 to 3 years.

www.gov.uk/national-insurance

You will also need to have a fit note (sometimes called ‘sick note’ or ‘doctor’s note’) but you can start making your claim before you have one. If you have only just become ill, you can self-certify for the first 7 days.

You can get New Style ESA on its own or at the same time as Universal Credit. If you apply for and are awarded both benefits, the New Style ESA you are paid will reduce your Universal Credit payment by the same amount.

www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment...ailed-guide#overview

I would advise you to seek help from your local Welfare Rights Organisation; advicelocal.uk

If you have any further questions, come back to the forum.

Gary

Hi Paul

Welcome to the forum.

In case you are not aware your real name may be showing as your Forum ID, if this is the case then I recommend that you change it as soon as possible. See

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq/forum

In answer to your question, unless your son has the requisite NI contributions then he will not be able to claim NS ESA. Legacy ESA stopped for new claimants a while ago, Universal Credit took it's place.

You are correct, your son needs to apply for UC, he will also need to apply for the LCWRA element by handing in a fit note when he has an appointment with his work coach.

The UC50 is divided into two halves; activities 1-10 are for physical issues and 11-17 are for mental health ones, you can receive a full award for either half.

Our UC/ESA Claim guide explains the criteria you are being assessed against and how to explain your limitations. See

help-for-claimants/esa1

If you have more questions then please return to the forum and we will do our best to help.

Gary

Hi, Sorry very confused about everything at the moment, head's a muddle and I'm not processing things well at all. I had a cancer diagnosis 2-3 weeks ago and am to have a major operation at the end of November. It is hoped this will remove all the cancer and that no further treatment will be necessary but tests will be needed on tissue removed during the op to find out if this is the case.

I am currently £0 income self employed claiming WTC and received the leaflet notifying me that I will be sent a letter a some point advising me to transfer to UC. I claim the disability element of WTC for depression, anxiety and have chronic migraine (more than 15 days of migraine with headache a month).

My NI contributions are up to their maximum for my state pension contributions but I haven't paid contributions voluntarily in the last year or two.

I am told that after my op I won't be able to work for 6 weeks.

At what point do I need to tell DWP and what impact will it have on my income?

Will I have to go 5 weeks without any income at that point?

Will I go straight onto UC?

I live alone and I am worried sick.

Thank you.