No ESA50 at WCA

Hi DL,

As mentioned previously the important issue would be to show how and why they qualified for the appropriate "Group" as part of an MR request. (WRAG or SG)

bro58

bro58
I was going to post a similar Topic then found this wealth of information, but now my head is spinning please can you clear a few things up.

Regarding Migratory Transfers:
The ESA50 form is sent to claimant from the private company? and that is after the DWP has requested the private company to do so?

When the ESA50 is returned is it the private company who score it?
Then send their findings to the DWP? whether or not a F2F is required?

Or does the private company, decide alone on asking the claimant to attend a F2F? then send both their findings from the information on the ESA50 and the F2F to the DWP.

So do ATOS/ CHDA do separate reports for the ESA50 and F2F Or is it one report that covers both,
Unless obviously someone qualifies for benefit by the form alone.

cats6 wrote: bro58
I was going to post a similar Topic then found this wealth of information, but now my head is spinning please can you clear a few things up.

Regarding Migratory Transfers:
The ESA50 form is sent to claimant from the private company? and that is after the DWP has requested the private company to do so?

When the ESA50 is returned is it the private company who score it?
Then send their findings to the DWP? whether or not a F2F is required?

Or does the private company, decide alone on asking the claimant to attend a F2F? then send both their findings from the information on the ESA50 and the F2F to the DWP.

So do ATOS/ CHDA do separate reports for the ESA50 and F2F Or is it one report that covers both,
Unless obviously someone qualifies for benefit by the form alone.

Hi c6,

This is the way that The ESA WCA process is "supposed" to progress.

When a claimant is being migrated over from IB, IS or SDA to ESA, The DWP should contact (refer the claimant to) Medical Services. (ATOS/Maximus)

Maximus should then send an ESA50 Questionnaire to the claimant to fill in and return to Maximus by the deadline date given.

On receiving the returned ESA50 Maximus should then evaluate the evidence with the ESA50 to see whether a "paper based assessment" can be carried out without the need of a F2F.

Or they should contact the claimant to arrange a F2F if they feel that the claimant has not provided enough evidence, and the claimant is capable of travelling to and from a F2F Appointment.

If a "paper based assessment" is carried out an ESA85A Medical Report will be written by The Maximus Assessor.

If a F2F is deemed necessary an ESA85 Medical Report will be written by The Maximus Assessor.

N.B. A fit for work decision can only be made if the claimant has actually taken part in a F2F. A paper based assessment can only result in a WRAG or SG Award.

In either scenario the ESA85/ESA85A will include "recommendations" made by the Assessor regarding which group (WRAG or SG) the claimant should be placed into, or fit for work if they feel the claimant does not qualify for WRAG or SG.

These "recommendations" are then sent to The DWP ESA Decision Maker (DM) who make the actual decision taking into account "all" evidence before them, including ESA50 and any other evidence supplied by the claimant, ESA85/ESA85A compiled by Maximus, and any Further Medical Evidence that they have such as an : ESA 113 Questionnaire, if one was sent to the claimants G.P.

DM's are not medically qualified.

The DM will then inform the claimant of their decision in writing.

You may find the first 4 links to our ESA Guides at the top of : This Page helpful.

See also : IB, IS, SDA, Migration to ESA FAQ’s

&

ESA FAQ’s

The whole ESA WCA process is the same for a claimant's first assessment or any subsequent re-assessments.

bro58

bro58 wrote:

cats6 wrote: bro58
I was going to post a similar Topic then found this wealth of information, but now my head is spinning please can you clear a few things up.

Regarding Migratory Transfers:
The ESA50 form is sent to claimant from the private company? and that is after the DWP has requested the private company to do so?

When the ESA50 is returned is it the private company who score it?
Then send their findings to the DWP? whether or not a F2F is required?

Or does the private company, decide alone on asking the claimant to attend a F2F? then send both their findings from the information on the ESA50 and the F2F to the DWP.

So do ATOS/ CHDA do separate reports for the ESA50 and F2F Or is it one report that covers both,
Unless obviously someone qualifies for benefit by the form alone.

Hi c6,

This is the way that The ESA WCA process is "supposed" to progress.

When a claimant is being migrated over from IB, IS or SDA to ESA, The DWP should contact (refer the claimant to) Medical Services. (ATOS/Maximus)

Maximus should then send an ESA50 Questionnaire to the claimant to fill in and return to Maximus by the deadline date given.

On receiving the returned ESA50 Maximus should then evaluate the evidence with the ESA50 to see whether a "paper based assessment" can be carried out without the need of a F2F.

Or they should contact the claimant to arrange a F2F if they feel that the claimant has not provided enough evidence, and the claimant is capable of travelling to and from a F2F Appointment.

If a "paper based assessment" is carried out an ESA85A Medical Report will be written by The Maximus Assessor.

If a F2F is deemed necessary an ESA85 Medical Report will be written by The Maximus Assessor.

N.B. A fit for work decision can only be made if the claimant has actually taken part in a F2F. A paper based assessment can only result in a WRAG or SG Award.

In either scenario the ESA85/ESA85A will include "recommendations" made by the Assessor regarding which group (WRAG or SG) the claimant should be placed into, or fit for work if they feel the claimant does not qualify for WRAG or SG.

These "recommendations" are then sent to The DWP ESA Decision Maker (DM) who make the actual decision taking into account "all" evidence before them, including ESA50 and any other evidence supplied by the claimant, ESA85/ESA85A compiled by Maximus, and any Further Medical Evidence that they have such as an : ESA 113 Questionnaire, if one was sent to the claimants G.P.

DM's are not medically qualified.

The DM will then inform the claimant of their decision in writing.

You may find the first 4 links to our ESA Guides at the top of : This Page helpful.

See also : IB, IS, SDA, Migration to ESA FAQ’s

&

ESA FAQ’s

The whole ESA WCA process is the same for a claimant's first assessment or any subsequent re-assessments.

bro58

Thank you i get that now. Remembering it all though is another matter! i do always have to look again and again at the info on W&B..
I have a few points and would appreciate your input, letting me know what you think.

My ESA50 was sent to ATOS June 2014 Now My F2F is with Maximus May 2015 Would there be anyway or/ reasons in my interest to stop that, that i may have over looked {bytheway after June 2014 atos sent another two ESA50 Forms to me which i ignored} DWP confirmed the June one had been received by atos)..

I have been reading up on Revisions & supersession etc... and i intend writing and asking, when i find out which DWP department i need to contact, who dealt with the migratory transfer, Why it is they did not automactically Tranfer me onto ESA Given the overwhelming medical evidence they hold on me, i do believe they have overlooked their reason to do so.

{i missed the phone call after the ESA50 was sent not realising at the time the importance of it), well i do have other things to contend with such as being chronically sick and disabled!

Now i know it will probably come to nothing, how ever in my particular circumstances, this would be good to have on file for future DM and Appeal boards.. also i asked them on the ESA50 form to contact named specialists/doctors, which they did not do (i take it that should have been atos?)The hospitals and Gp's have told me NO requests for medical information on me have been made.

{Some back-ground info just for interest}
Regarding these questions relating to the ESA50 I'm in a rather peculiar situation medical wise, where as none hardly relate... My gp's do not provide much care to me based on their own medical training, as i have a specialist team solely set up for my rare condition, 9 in 1 million live births in population, (supercenters of excellence) who tell the gp's what to do, most of the gp's have been fine with this but if one refuses to prescribe certain med's i ask for that i think would be of use to me, outside of being prescribed by this team then one phone call from them or a team member is sent in person, i then have that item.

Now one would think with all this expertise it would be easy to gain medical evidence for myself, not really as most are genetic research scientists hidden behind lab doors and information held on me from them does not go onto main hospital medical records, it has to be summarised and reported down the chain to nurses,doctors team, and a further predicament i find myself in is, because of financial cuts, these supercenters only now see us patients once a year or once in two yrs, if we can make it there, and to further add to my stress of obtaining a personal report on myself early 2014 head nurses,registrars and professors as well as local GP who all know me personally all retired with in a few months of each other! nightmare scenario!!!! So now having to get acquainted with their replacements, they for now can only offer to me my medical records how this disease works RATHER than how it works AND how it does actually affect me personally on a daily basics as a statement of fact from them.

yes i have stated on ESA50 how i am affected daily but see how much better it would be having an upto date copy from a Mr and a professor who only specialise in my condition and who have visited me at home and monitored me personally for days at a time over the years at these supercenters.. i do still have copies of personal reports dating back 20/30 years from those professionals but as i said they have now retired.

Last time i found myself in this situation, via the DWP, mass retirement of medics who personally dealt with me was 1995 and it took two full years to win to back benefit awards for indefinite periods and the appeals doctor, head of chair went to town on the DWP''s representative and threw papers across the table aiming at his face, never seen the likes of it, was very amusing! for those two years i was only paid the basic benefit payment.

If it was difficult way back then fighting for awards i now see it as nigh on impossible under this new regime, the hops that have to be jumped through have tightened and gotten smaller is the way i see it. and to add to that i know for a fact my name is mud on file at the DWP.. their secret reports on me confirmed this, because the Director at the time overseeing these supercenters also sat on advisory panels to law making acts/bills of changes to social security, and he on my behalf went for a prosecution and internal discipline (and got one) of those DM's/managers who'd looked at my claim.
Unfortunately times have changed for the worse, tightening the nose around legal claims regarding their rules and regulations!
Really all i see happening now is the American system where all welfare/care is privatised and no one will, even under human rights automatically have eligibility to basic benefit payments Let alone to these specialised benefits. because of mandatory rules regarding re-ablement teams.

Even this new top specialist in my disease "a Mr" consultant is the over all head consultant for two Spire healthcare hospitals Yet he attends one of the supercenters clinics which is partly funded by the Charity and he is paid to attend by the NHS/us tax payers!
How long before the charity has to fully fund the clinic & ask these specialists to volunteer their time if they can not fund his wages....its coming......if more people were awake and got with the program this wouldn't of started or be happening!
Oh to those reading this, i am not apologetic for doom & gloon
Because it is reality! try living on no income with no means of earning even a basic standard income
People like Stephen Hawkins eventhough i admire him, is to the vast majority of disabled A exception to the rule, Not forgetting he was born able bodied to start off with.

Hi c6,

"My ESA50 was sent to ATOS June 2014 Now My F2F is with Maximus May 2015 Would there be anyway or/ reasons in my interest to stop that, that i may have over looked {bytheway after June 2014 atos sent another two ESA50 Forms to me which i ignored} DWP confirmed the June one had been received by atos).."

Do you feel that the information within the June 2014 ESA50 is current with respect to the limitations that you are suffering ?

If not, you could knock up some extra information to make your evidence current, and hand it to The Assessor before the start of the F2F.

If you wish, you could even fill out a fresh ESA50 :

Using The PDF Version Of The ESA50 Questionnaire

Whilst referring to our : ESA Claims Guides

Again, you could take this with you and hand it to The Assessor.

If you feel that you could not manage the return trip to The Maximus Assessment Centre due to your limitations, you could request a Home Assessment, but you would need to contact Maximus and they would probably insist that your G.P. or other treating HCP faxed a letter to them supporting this.

Contact (CHDA) (Maximus)

"I have been reading up on Revisions & supersession etc... and i intend writing and asking, when i find out which DWP department i need to contact, who dealt with the migratory transfer, Why it is they did not automactically Tranfer me onto ESA Given the overwhelming medical evidence they hold on me, i do believe they have overlooked their reason to do so."

Originally, all migrations from IB, IS and SDA were dealt with by IB Migration Teams that were set up in various geographical locations.

I don't know whether this is still the case, as all migrations to ESA were supposed to have been completed by Spring 2014.

You could try ringing the ESA number to try and find out which office is dealing with you.

THE ESA PHONE NUMBER DWP : 0345 608 8545 Press Option 3 for ESA. (Open 8AM-6PM. Mon-Fri.)

No one was/is automatically transferred but they could have made a paper based assessment.

"{i missed the phone call after the ESA50 was sent not realising at the time the importance of it), well i do have other things to contend with such as being chronically sick and disabled!"

To be honest, the phone call that claimants receive after the original Conversion Notice letter that you get informing you that "The Benefit that you are receiving is changing", is not that important.

It is merely a "courtesy" call and the DWP trying to be more "customer" friendly.

"Now i know it will probably come to nothing, how ever in my particular circumstances, this would be good to have on file for future DM and Appeal boards.. also i asked them on the ESA50 form to contact named specialists/doctors, which they did not do (i take it that should have been atos?)The hospitals and Gp's have told me NO requests for medical information on me have been made."

They are under no legal obligation to contact an HCP that you provide contact details for.

They only do so in the form of an : ESA 113 Questionnaire for less than a quarter of all ESA Claimants.

This is why we advise members to obtain there own evidence and send it with The ESA50.

I have taken your other comments on board !!

Just in case you haven't already done so have a look at this FAQ :

ESA Medical – What to expect

Good luck, and please keep us up to date on proceedings.

bro58

I intend taking more evidence to a F2F But wasn't sure about the taking of a new ESA50 form.. so now i know thanks.

Is there a way to delay this F2F with maximus in May 2015 Because the 1st ESA50 Form was sent to atos June 2015. On the grounds it is bias to my claim
Or i expect they are just happy to lump it all together?

I know their left hand has no clue what their right is doing!

Just to say i have read on W&B about the Migratory Transfer process and there is a part, and the way it was worded looked to me, if only in practice that the DWP Team could have identified people for a transfer with no form filling..
i will still write to the DWP about it if not only as a form of protest and interest of their response.

i am considering those regs 35 etc but yet have know idea how co-operative these new set of specialists are till i meet them in a few months time.

I may yet go to the F2F and bamboozle them with evidence
{Weighing up my options for a win against them!}