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Fined for breaking a rule we didn't know existed
- kj2s
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5 years 1 month ago #226983 by kj2s
Fined for breaking a rule we didn't know existed was created by kj2s
My husband was moved from Incapacity Benefit and Income Support in November 2011 over to ESA. The Benefit was swapped over directly, and we were not informed of any changes or asked to fill in a new application form. In March 2018 he was called in for an interview and accused of not declaring savings of more than £6000.
He received a letter in November 2012 telling him that his Contribution based ESA was ending because he had reached the 365-day maximum and would be paid Income Related Employment and Support Allowance instead. However, at no point in this letter, or any subsequent letters, does it mention not being allowed more than £6000 in savings.
I also get PIP and we were saving hard and selling what we could to pay towards a predicted large shortfall when our Mortgage ended in March 2018. Therefore, our savings a built up and averaged at about £8500 until the Mortgage ended and we paid off what we could in a lump sum.
We have just received a letter telling us we have been overpaid and they want to recover £775 plus a £50 fine for failing to declare a change in our circumstances which we were not even made aware existed. If we had known, we could have made monthly overpayments to our Mortgage to bring down the shortfall that way and stayed under the £6000 rule.
Has anyone else had this situation? We are not sure what to do from here and would really appreciate any advice before we ask for the mandatory reconsideration.
He received a letter in November 2012 telling him that his Contribution based ESA was ending because he had reached the 365-day maximum and would be paid Income Related Employment and Support Allowance instead. However, at no point in this letter, or any subsequent letters, does it mention not being allowed more than £6000 in savings.
I also get PIP and we were saving hard and selling what we could to pay towards a predicted large shortfall when our Mortgage ended in March 2018. Therefore, our savings a built up and averaged at about £8500 until the Mortgage ended and we paid off what we could in a lump sum.
We have just received a letter telling us we have been overpaid and they want to recover £775 plus a £50 fine for failing to declare a change in our circumstances which we were not even made aware existed. If we had known, we could have made monthly overpayments to our Mortgage to bring down the shortfall that way and stayed under the £6000 rule.
Has anyone else had this situation? We are not sure what to do from here and would really appreciate any advice before we ask for the mandatory reconsideration.
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- Gordon
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5 years 1 month ago #226992 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Fined for breaking a rule we didn't know existed
K
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
In case you are not aware, your real name appears to be showing in the forum, if you want to change this then follow the instructions in the following FAQ
My full name is showing, how can I stop it?
You might be better off trying to get face to face advice on this, we are limited on the advice that we can give as you may need someone who can communicate with the DWP on your behalf which we cannot do on the forum. Do an internet search for "welfare advice" with your postcode, town or county.
The rule for Income Related ESA is that any savings or assets in excess of £6000 result in a £1/week deduction from your ESA for every £250 in excess of the £6000.
The Regulation is very black and white so I don't see any opportunity to argue that an overpayment has not occurred as you accept that you have more than the £6000.
However, just because the overpayment occurred does not mean that it is recoverable. You can argue that you were unaware of the requirement to notify the DWP.
Did you receive any additional documentation when your husband was switched from ESA(CB) to ESA(IR), for example; a booklet on ESA?
Were you asked to complete an ESA3? There's a sample on the following link.
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/136119/re...ch/3/ESA3%201012.pdf
The annual ESA Entitlement letters say that you must tell them about any changes to your circumstances, did any of the letters explain what changes must be reported?
Gordon
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
In case you are not aware, your real name appears to be showing in the forum, if you want to change this then follow the instructions in the following FAQ
My full name is showing, how can I stop it?
You might be better off trying to get face to face advice on this, we are limited on the advice that we can give as you may need someone who can communicate with the DWP on your behalf which we cannot do on the forum. Do an internet search for "welfare advice" with your postcode, town or county.
The rule for Income Related ESA is that any savings or assets in excess of £6000 result in a £1/week deduction from your ESA for every £250 in excess of the £6000.
The Regulation is very black and white so I don't see any opportunity to argue that an overpayment has not occurred as you accept that you have more than the £6000.
However, just because the overpayment occurred does not mean that it is recoverable. You can argue that you were unaware of the requirement to notify the DWP.
Did you receive any additional documentation when your husband was switched from ESA(CB) to ESA(IR), for example; a booklet on ESA?
Were you asked to complete an ESA3? There's a sample on the following link.
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/136119/re...ch/3/ESA3%201012.pdf
The annual ESA Entitlement letters say that you must tell them about any changes to your circumstances, did any of the letters explain what changes must be reported?
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- lesley
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5 years 1 month ago #227018 by lesley
Replied by lesley on topic Fined for breaking a rule we didn't know existed
Several years ago a friend of mine was overpaid £50.00 a week on her D.L.A. It mounted up to over £2,000. Apparently she was getting the Severe Disability Allowance twice. The D.W.P. sent an officer out to see her and I went along to give her support. The officer was okay and said that because it was not her mistake and she taken the money unwittingly, that she did not have to pay a penny of it back.
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- Agnes
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5 years 1 month ago #227034 by Agnes
Replied by Agnes on topic Fined for breaking a rule we didn't know existed
Gordon,
Is this still the same when your 'savings' go over £6000 due to winning a tribunal and getting back payments on claim? I have debts to pay off due to not having enough to live on whilst appealing & that should take me under that threshold
I haven't declared it being over as didn't know about the rule & assumed as DWP paid me the money they'd be aware of what i have.
Is this still the same when your 'savings' go over £6000 due to winning a tribunal and getting back payments on claim? I have debts to pay off due to not having enough to live on whilst appealing & that should take me under that threshold
I haven't declared it being over as didn't know about the rule & assumed as DWP paid me the money they'd be aware of what i have.
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- Gordon
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5 years 1 month ago #227057 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Fined for breaking a rule we didn't know existed
Agnes
Back payments like this should be disregarded for 52 weeks but after that, they are counted as savings.
Gordon
Back payments like this should be disregarded for 52 weeks but after that, they are counted as savings.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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