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TRANSFER FROM IB TO ESA AND PIP CLAIM
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9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #126470 by angelcake
Replied by angelcake on topic TRANSFER FROM IB TO ESA AND PIP CLAIM
Hi Gordon,
May I have some advice please. Where I’m up to is this is the final day of my case to open a MR.
I’m only just starting to look at the guides this afternoon to see where I feel that I qualify for the support group.
I see from the guide on MR and appeals that it is my chance basically to explain where and why I feel I should be in the SR. I don’t know how long it is going to take me to get together some points to raise. I don’t feel at this point that I will be ready and waste the opportunity I have to state my case well on the phone.
I’m not sure what time the benefits office closes but I do know that a call back can be up to 3 hrs. I’m not sure what to do whether to see what I can get done in the next few hours and then ring but they may not get back to me today depending on how late it is. Where do I stand in this scenario? Am I ok as long as I’ve opened the MR today and if they have to get back to me after the weekend?
Other alternative I’ve read in the guide that if you’ve requested the docs but have not received them and they have not arrived then you can request an extension to the MR for 2 wks. What do you think of me doing this? I will be a bit nervous counting on their word on the phone that they’ve given me an extension but it might be the best thing for me so I can get best prepared with my bullet points. It takes me a long time to do things and I get very confused so bullet points from a mass of information is not an easy thing for me to done and may take sometime.
If I ask for an extension of the MR will I still be able to request a phone call with them next week to discuss why I feel I should be in the support group?
I’m sorry that I’ve still not done this by now but the stress of it all has worsened my health.
Please could you advise on what you think I should do given the circumstances. Should I ask for a extension to the MR? Or Is it best if I don’t and try and throw something together and ring for a call-back later today?
Thanks again
Angelcake
May I have some advice please. Where I’m up to is this is the final day of my case to open a MR.
I’m only just starting to look at the guides this afternoon to see where I feel that I qualify for the support group.
I see from the guide on MR and appeals that it is my chance basically to explain where and why I feel I should be in the SR. I don’t know how long it is going to take me to get together some points to raise. I don’t feel at this point that I will be ready and waste the opportunity I have to state my case well on the phone.
I’m not sure what time the benefits office closes but I do know that a call back can be up to 3 hrs. I’m not sure what to do whether to see what I can get done in the next few hours and then ring but they may not get back to me today depending on how late it is. Where do I stand in this scenario? Am I ok as long as I’ve opened the MR today and if they have to get back to me after the weekend?
Other alternative I’ve read in the guide that if you’ve requested the docs but have not received them and they have not arrived then you can request an extension to the MR for 2 wks. What do you think of me doing this? I will be a bit nervous counting on their word on the phone that they’ve given me an extension but it might be the best thing for me so I can get best prepared with my bullet points. It takes me a long time to do things and I get very confused so bullet points from a mass of information is not an easy thing for me to done and may take sometime.
If I ask for an extension of the MR will I still be able to request a phone call with them next week to discuss why I feel I should be in the support group?
I’m sorry that I’ve still not done this by now but the stress of it all has worsened my health.
Please could you advise on what you think I should do given the circumstances. Should I ask for a extension to the MR? Or Is it best if I don’t and try and throw something together and ring for a call-back later today?
Thanks again
Angelcake
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Gordon.
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9 years 5 months ago #126484 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic TRANSFER FROM IB TO ESA AND PIP CLAIM
angelcake
You need to separate requesting an MR which if at all possible you should do within the one month and explaining why you should be in the Support Group, they are two separate parts of the process.
You will not get a 3 hour call back, this is purely in relation to the operation of the DWP call centre, MRs fall under the purview of a Decision maker and they have no obligation to phone you back within a given timescale, in fact many claimants never actually receive a call as part of the MR process.
If you ask for a written Statement of Reasons from the DWP then in principle this will extend the time you have to request an MR, you will have then have two weeks from the date that the SoR is issued to make the request.
I have to warn you that is a risky option, the SoR option has been available for benefits for many years and pre-dates the implementation of MRs, our experience. historically, is that the vast majority of requests for a SoR go unanswered and the DWP have regularly taken the position that the information has already been supplied all be it in another form. I have certainly seen several posts where SoRs have been issued as part of the MR process but I don't know what the ratio of SoRs to requests is.
To be clear, you cannot ask for an extension of the process. You can make a request within the normal one month, you can make a Late request for an MR including an explanation of why it is late, this runs the risk of the MR request being refused, although we have not heard of this happening, or you can request a SoR, but if the DWP decide that the information has already been provided and as a consequence there will be no extension.
Gordon
You need to separate requesting an MR which if at all possible you should do within the one month and explaining why you should be in the Support Group, they are two separate parts of the process.
You will not get a 3 hour call back, this is purely in relation to the operation of the DWP call centre, MRs fall under the purview of a Decision maker and they have no obligation to phone you back within a given timescale, in fact many claimants never actually receive a call as part of the MR process.
If you ask for a written Statement of Reasons from the DWP then in principle this will extend the time you have to request an MR, you will have then have two weeks from the date that the SoR is issued to make the request.
I have to warn you that is a risky option, the SoR option has been available for benefits for many years and pre-dates the implementation of MRs, our experience. historically, is that the vast majority of requests for a SoR go unanswered and the DWP have regularly taken the position that the information has already been supplied all be it in another form. I have certainly seen several posts where SoRs have been issued as part of the MR process but I don't know what the ratio of SoRs to requests is.
To be clear, you cannot ask for an extension of the process. You can make a request within the normal one month, you can make a Late request for an MR including an explanation of why it is late, this runs the risk of the MR request being refused, although we have not heard of this happening, or you can request a SoR, but if the DWP decide that the information has already been provided and as a consequence there will be no extension.
Gordon
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9 years 5 months ago #126489 by angelcake
Replied by angelcake on topic TRANSFER FROM IB TO ESA AND PIP CLAIM
Hi Gordon,
Really sorry!! but I'm still confused I thought that you said I'd get the opportunity to speak with someone? Also in the guide it talks of 2 wk extension.
Are you saying that does not apply and I need to register my MR within 3odays? So what is the 2wk extension about I do not understand.
Also when I rang to request a MR last week but then cancelled as I panicked and requested the forms they did say before I'd cancelled it that someone would call me back within 3 hours.
Are you saying I may not get an opportunity to speak to someone or are you saying that it will be in their own time?
I'd not taken the opportunity to speak to anyone yet will I get the chance as long as I call to register for the MR by the end of today?
Please could you clarify I'm sorry it's probably me confused
Thank you
Really sorry!! but I'm still confused I thought that you said I'd get the opportunity to speak with someone? Also in the guide it talks of 2 wk extension.
Are you saying that does not apply and I need to register my MR within 3odays? So what is the 2wk extension about I do not understand.
Also when I rang to request a MR last week but then cancelled as I panicked and requested the forms they did say before I'd cancelled it that someone would call me back within 3 hours.
Are you saying I may not get an opportunity to speak to someone or are you saying that it will be in their own time?
I'd not taken the opportunity to speak to anyone yet will I get the chance as long as I call to register for the MR by the end of today?
Please could you clarify I'm sorry it's probably me confused
Thank you
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9 years 5 months ago #126493 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic TRANSFER FROM IB TO ESA AND PIP CLAIM
angelcake
Don't worry it's a confusing situation because there is no standard process.
You may get to speak to someone, the guidelines for an MR require a Decision Maker to phone the claimant as part of the process, however, this does not always happen, where it does it is not specifically linked to the actual request for an MR, so you will not get a three hour phone back, it could be next week or the next, or even longer, the DM will only try a certain number of times so if they phone when you are out they then may not make another call.
It is possible to extend the time available to request an MR by requesting a written Statement of Reasons, if the request is accepted then you will have two weeks from date of the letter accompanying the SoR when it is sent out, so you would likely have far more than two weeks.
However, the DWP are not required to issue a SoR if they believe that they have already provided the information albeit in another form. So you could make a request for a SoR in the hope of extending the MR request time only to find that the DWP take the position that you already have the information, leaving you outside of time to make a normal request for an MR. To make matters even more difficult, the DWP may not tell you that they are not going to actually produce a SoR.
To be clear, you cannot assume that requesting a SoR will actually extend the MR request time, unless the DWP agree that they will supply one.
Gordon
Don't worry it's a confusing situation because there is no standard process.
You may get to speak to someone, the guidelines for an MR require a Decision Maker to phone the claimant as part of the process, however, this does not always happen, where it does it is not specifically linked to the actual request for an MR, so you will not get a three hour phone back, it could be next week or the next, or even longer, the DM will only try a certain number of times so if they phone when you are out they then may not make another call.
It is possible to extend the time available to request an MR by requesting a written Statement of Reasons, if the request is accepted then you will have two weeks from date of the letter accompanying the SoR when it is sent out, so you would likely have far more than two weeks.
However, the DWP are not required to issue a SoR if they believe that they have already provided the information albeit in another form. So you could make a request for a SoR in the hope of extending the MR request time only to find that the DWP take the position that you already have the information, leaving you outside of time to make a normal request for an MR. To make matters even more difficult, the DWP may not tell you that they are not going to actually produce a SoR.
To be clear, you cannot assume that requesting a SoR will actually extend the MR request time, unless the DWP agree that they will supply one.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #126934 by angelcake
Replied by angelcake on topic TRANSFER FROM IB TO ESA AND PIP CLAIM
Hi Gordon,
Apologies long post and type 0s but really beyond my limit of coping with this now...
I asked for a MC in time and received a letter to confirm, 28 days is up next week.
Took ages to receive the forms and not all arrived I requested and wondered if you can pick up on anything that might suggest I should be in the support group from what I write.
They told me on the phone that I can have a verbal explanation whenever I want but I’ve just been too stressed and confused to cope with going through the guides and my evidence to look for how I think I would qualify for the support group.
I’m only just looking at what they’ve sent today...I’m in a bit of a state with it all and would appreciate it if you can see anything of why I should be in the support group.
Firstly I don’t know what qualifies you for the support group is it number of points?
The first sheet I’ve got is the conversion decision-
From what I can see it is seems to be based on the assessment, which didn’t go well
It is stating that I have said that I can be ‘well’ for 3 months out of 6 – I never said I could be ‘well’ for this time. I would say in a six month period, more than three months my conditions affect my ability to cope with changes. I talked about when my condition is bad it is 4 days or more. How it is when it is not as bad. I’ve been careful to mention how I can do things sometimes.
It says on the report that the decision has to be therefore a balanced judgement.
It says I have scored at least 15 points but has only listed – coping with getting about on your own 9 points awarded for going out and dealing with other people 6 points for coping with social engagement although it says I have problems the majority of the time.
Those are the only things listed so it looks like I’ve scored 15 points. However, after this conversion decision sheet in the med report it is acknowledging I have problems with other descriptors. But no mention on this sheet.
I don’t know what this means??
‘...none of the descriptors set out in schedule 3 to the ESA regulations apply. She does not have limited capability for work related activity...she placed in WRAG for 24 mths
However, in the prognosis it states ‘I advise that work is UNLIKELY in the longer term
Furthermore under opinion
‘the available evidence suggests improvement in UNLIKELY in the longer term. Long standing problems, under GP and specialist care, awaiting further investigations for CFS symptoms’
Am I missing something?? I’m just wondering why on earth I’ve been put in the WRAG group based on those documented statements?? Is this right am I missing something here?
It states earlier under ‘Substantial mental risks – that making reasonable adjustments in the workplace and by taking prescribed medication there would not be any risks etc etc.
How is this right if they are saying later that work is unlikely?
Also my condition is not controlled well and sometimes not controlled with the medication and my consultant has said commented on this in detail, she has also said that in her opinion I am not able to work.
Can you tell me about the risks to mental health, my condition has worsened with the stress and but even without that I am not ready nor do I know at this point if I will ever be ready to take any steps towards work.
Are the risks just suicide and self harm?
Another thing when I’ve spoken to the job centre they said on the computer that I’ve been given a prognosis of 2 yrs that I won’t be looked at until then and they have said because of this I will not be required to do much other than keep in contact every 6mths. However, they have said that as far as the decision process is that if your in the WRAG group then your classed as ready to make steps towards work but they reiterated because of my 2 yr prognosis before they would look at me again.
However it says on the report that I will be in WRAG for 24 mths?? Surely this isn’t right if I’ve been given a 2yr prognosis??
The assessor was a nightmare in terms of not documenting accurately and putting her spin on things.
I turned up at the assessment in tears and anxious explaining as my friend who had accompanied had a accident and couldn’t drive so as last minute couldn’t guarantee a taxi payment and too late to organise taxi in time. The assessor was well aware of situation and how I was visibily upset and stressed. I asked her to comment it on my assessment as I only drove because I had to but it was not documented the situation but it did say I appeared tense with some difficulty coping at interview but the whole premise that I drove to the assessment with no mention of the incident.
She also documented that I WALK to my brothers takes 20minutes once a week or every two. This is incorrect on both counts as if I am well enough to go it is too far and the DRIVE is 20minutes. She was pushing and pushing for me to commit to saying how many times I do things like this and shopping but sometimes it can be once a month or longer which she did document.
For hazards they are saying none of the above apply and myself and my GP have documented specifically on this.
Initaiting....they have said frequent cannot....at least 2 personal actions – evidence suggests some functional disability but this is not on the conversion decision sheet?
Cannot cope with change...life significantly difficult not on the conversion decision sheet?
Social engagement is on the conversion decision sheet?
Getting about –unable specific place...without accompanied person –is listed on conversion decision sheet?
So it appears that two of the descriptors have not been documented on the not on the conversion decision sheet?
There maybe other stuff but I've got brain fog and got very little time but just wondering if I have enough here to be able to support me in the SG and have a verbal convo that I’m entitled to. As I feel too exhausted to go through the guide and look to see where I should be in the support group.
Wondered whether to just call them today and speak based on what I’ve said here or whether I need to really go over the guide? as they can use stuff from the phone call
Also I’ve got an appointment with my specialist, who probably will do me another letter of support any ideas of what I need to be asking her for to support me getting in the support group??
...and do you think I need to get/ be useful the verbal explanation before I go to the see my consultant tomorrow??
...and is it probably a good idea to speak to them today whilst I’m in a state?
Thank you
AC
Apologies long post and type 0s but really beyond my limit of coping with this now...
I asked for a MC in time and received a letter to confirm, 28 days is up next week.
Took ages to receive the forms and not all arrived I requested and wondered if you can pick up on anything that might suggest I should be in the support group from what I write.
They told me on the phone that I can have a verbal explanation whenever I want but I’ve just been too stressed and confused to cope with going through the guides and my evidence to look for how I think I would qualify for the support group.
I’m only just looking at what they’ve sent today...I’m in a bit of a state with it all and would appreciate it if you can see anything of why I should be in the support group.
Firstly I don’t know what qualifies you for the support group is it number of points?
The first sheet I’ve got is the conversion decision-
From what I can see it is seems to be based on the assessment, which didn’t go well
It is stating that I have said that I can be ‘well’ for 3 months out of 6 – I never said I could be ‘well’ for this time. I would say in a six month period, more than three months my conditions affect my ability to cope with changes. I talked about when my condition is bad it is 4 days or more. How it is when it is not as bad. I’ve been careful to mention how I can do things sometimes.
It says on the report that the decision has to be therefore a balanced judgement.
It says I have scored at least 15 points but has only listed – coping with getting about on your own 9 points awarded for going out and dealing with other people 6 points for coping with social engagement although it says I have problems the majority of the time.
Those are the only things listed so it looks like I’ve scored 15 points. However, after this conversion decision sheet in the med report it is acknowledging I have problems with other descriptors. But no mention on this sheet.
I don’t know what this means??
‘...none of the descriptors set out in schedule 3 to the ESA regulations apply. She does not have limited capability for work related activity...she placed in WRAG for 24 mths
However, in the prognosis it states ‘I advise that work is UNLIKELY in the longer term
Furthermore under opinion
‘the available evidence suggests improvement in UNLIKELY in the longer term. Long standing problems, under GP and specialist care, awaiting further investigations for CFS symptoms’
Am I missing something?? I’m just wondering why on earth I’ve been put in the WRAG group based on those documented statements?? Is this right am I missing something here?
It states earlier under ‘Substantial mental risks – that making reasonable adjustments in the workplace and by taking prescribed medication there would not be any risks etc etc.
How is this right if they are saying later that work is unlikely?
Also my condition is not controlled well and sometimes not controlled with the medication and my consultant has said commented on this in detail, she has also said that in her opinion I am not able to work.
Can you tell me about the risks to mental health, my condition has worsened with the stress and but even without that I am not ready nor do I know at this point if I will ever be ready to take any steps towards work.
Are the risks just suicide and self harm?
Another thing when I’ve spoken to the job centre they said on the computer that I’ve been given a prognosis of 2 yrs that I won’t be looked at until then and they have said because of this I will not be required to do much other than keep in contact every 6mths. However, they have said that as far as the decision process is that if your in the WRAG group then your classed as ready to make steps towards work but they reiterated because of my 2 yr prognosis before they would look at me again.
However it says on the report that I will be in WRAG for 24 mths?? Surely this isn’t right if I’ve been given a 2yr prognosis??
The assessor was a nightmare in terms of not documenting accurately and putting her spin on things.
I turned up at the assessment in tears and anxious explaining as my friend who had accompanied had a accident and couldn’t drive so as last minute couldn’t guarantee a taxi payment and too late to organise taxi in time. The assessor was well aware of situation and how I was visibily upset and stressed. I asked her to comment it on my assessment as I only drove because I had to but it was not documented the situation but it did say I appeared tense with some difficulty coping at interview but the whole premise that I drove to the assessment with no mention of the incident.
She also documented that I WALK to my brothers takes 20minutes once a week or every two. This is incorrect on both counts as if I am well enough to go it is too far and the DRIVE is 20minutes. She was pushing and pushing for me to commit to saying how many times I do things like this and shopping but sometimes it can be once a month or longer which she did document.
For hazards they are saying none of the above apply and myself and my GP have documented specifically on this.
Initaiting....they have said frequent cannot....at least 2 personal actions – evidence suggests some functional disability but this is not on the conversion decision sheet?
Cannot cope with change...life significantly difficult not on the conversion decision sheet?
Social engagement is on the conversion decision sheet?
Getting about –unable specific place...without accompanied person –is listed on conversion decision sheet?
So it appears that two of the descriptors have not been documented on the not on the conversion decision sheet?
There maybe other stuff but I've got brain fog and got very little time but just wondering if I have enough here to be able to support me in the SG and have a verbal convo that I’m entitled to. As I feel too exhausted to go through the guide and look to see where I should be in the support group.
Wondered whether to just call them today and speak based on what I’ve said here or whether I need to really go over the guide? as they can use stuff from the phone call
Also I’ve got an appointment with my specialist, who probably will do me another letter of support any ideas of what I need to be asking her for to support me getting in the support group??
...and do you think I need to get/ be useful the verbal explanation before I go to the see my consultant tomorrow??
...and is it probably a good idea to speak to them today whilst I’m in a state?
Thank you
AC
Last edit: 9 years 4 months ago by Gordon.
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9 years 4 months ago #126938 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic TRANSFER FROM IB TO ESA AND PIP CLAIM
AC
I am in the process of answering your post
Gordon
I am in the process of answering your post
Gordon
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