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Feeling uneasy about support with pip application

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8 years 6 months ago #141856 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic Appealing 'Going out' based on public transport
Hi

I did a mandatory reconsideration because I expected to be awarded descriptor d rather than b for the 'planning and making jounryes' descriptor . In my MR letter, the only reason I argued for this was because I couldn't use public transport.
In the MR letter I quoted the dwp guide about not consdering people unable to make public journeys as being able to make journeys alone along with governments guidance which suggested people with higher transport needs should be considered for higher points.

Unfortunately the MR didn't apply the higher descriptor although at least my entitlement didn't go down. Oddly the reply letter states 'I CANNOT consider problems you have with.......use of taxis, public transport'. I requested a call back about this because it clearly contradicts the dwp guidance and arguably the government guidance(higher transport costs). The decision maker who called me agreed there was a contradiction with what the dwp guidance states and what it states on the decision makers MR letter(in relation to public transport). In any case he told me I would have to take it up at an appeal. I have a few questions:

1. In addition to my public transport problems, I could have argued that I need assitence when outside rather than just prompting, however the MR deadline was approaching and I was so confident about my public transport problems so I didn't argue about the interpretation of descriptor e or raise this in my MR. Since I didn't argue about this in my MR, do you think it would be problematic or if I were to raise this in an appeal now?

2. Since public transport isn't mentioned in the government guidance but it is mentioned in the dwp guidance and I do have higher transport needs, do you think I can still get descriptor d at appeal stage on grounds of being unable to use public transport and having higher transport needs. I would like to point out that my case for these specific details are quite strong.

3. If I do submit an appeal. Is it possible that somebody will look at it and make the award without the need for a face to face tribunal or will this have to be\is likely to be decided at a face to face tribunal?

4. Regarding any face to face tribunal, will they look at the entire award again and ask me about everything or will they only focus on only on the public transport/increased journey costs issue?

Many thanks

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8 years 6 months ago #141864 by Gordon
Hi Amonia

To answer your questions.

1. Have a look at the latest PIP Claim guide, there is a discussion on "prompting" and the Going Out activity and an explanation of how to challenge the DWP view at appeal.

It should not be an issue raising this at appeal when you did not at MR.

2. There is a clear discrepancy between the PIP activity defined in the legislation, which makes no reference to public transport and the DWP guidance which does. I find it bizarre that the DM has chosen to ignore their own advice on how to apply this, but I am not surprised.

The DWP guidance is used by Tribunal panels as a guide on how to apply the PIP tests, although they are not bound by it, there is no reason why you cannot present both arguments at appeal, they are not mutually exclusive.

3. The DWP may look at your claim when they receive your appeal submission, but if they do it is most likely that this will not happen until immediately before the hearing. Be aware they are only required to make a more favourable award, this may not be the award you want.

The Tribunal panel may make a Decision prior to the hearing, but as both of your arguments are dependant on how you are effected, I think it unlikely that they will make a Decision without hearing from you.

You do have the option of a Paper hearing that you do not attend, but success rates for this are considerably lower and it may not be to you advantage not to attend.

4. They can extend their review to your whole award, they'll certainly look at doing this when they review the papers, but may decide that they do not need to. If there is a danger to your current award then they are required to make you aware of this before they proceed with the hearing and offer you the opportunity to cancel your appeal.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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8 years 6 months ago #141867 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
Hi Gordon. Please kindly clarify:

1. Am I right in thinking that when the tribunal look at my papers, if they think that my award can be changed i.e. go down, then they will contact me first (telephone or letter) to let me know this is the case and at this point, I will have the option to withdraw?
Therefore if they did not contact me about any potential threat to the award before the face to face tribunal, I should NOT expect to be asked about descriptors other than the descriptor I am appealing at the tribunal?

2. Since I don’t know why the decision maker didn’t apply the dwps’ own guidance on the public transport issue, I don’t know how they are arguing their decision from a interpretation or legal perspective. As I said, even the person who called me admitted the guidance contradiction. Should I expect to see their explanation when they send me all the case papers (will it include their legal/interpretation arguments) or do I have to wait and find out at the tribunal? Can I contact the dwp asking for a detailed explanation in advance so I can prepare for the appeal/realise if I have case?

3. As I am tired and it’s not my strongest point, I may not try to argue about the needing assistance issue and just focus on the transport issue. In my appeal form/letter is it ok for me to just reference the MR letter(which has all my arguments) and point out that the MR decision letter simply disregards the arguments I have already made, or do I have to make the arguments all over again in my appeal form/letter?

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8 years 6 months ago #141887 by Gordon
Amonia

1, Unfortunately the Tribunal panel will not look at your papers until at best the day before your hearing or more likely the night before, so there will be no opportunity for them to notify before the hearing.

Also,. you have misunderstood the circumstances in which they will speak to you, it will only be if the Judge believes there is a risk to your current award, this does not mean that they cannot look at other Descriptors during the hearing.

2. You can ask the Decision Maker for a Statement of Reasons but they will likely take the view that they have already supplied this information to you in the letters that you have already received, I think it very unlikely that you will receive further explanation.

You also need to be aware, whilst the panel will undoubtedly take notice of the DM's Decision, a Tribunal looks at your claim from scratch, you will only get an award by showing that you meet the criteria for one.

3. It's a decision that only you can make, but if you only present one argument then you only have one route to an award, if the panel take the view that their is no legal requirement for a claimant to use public transport, which is consistent with the legislation, then you're scuppered, it may be difficult to introduce a second argument during the hearing that you had not included in your submission.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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8 years 6 months ago #141981 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application

Gordon wrote: 3. The DWP may look at your claim when they receive your appeal submission, but if they do it is most likely that this will not happen until immediately before the hearing. Be aware they are only required to make a more favourable award, this may not be the award you want.


Hi Gordon. From your appeals guide it seems that after recieving my appeal the dwp will create a counter report which will be sent out to me. I will then have some time to counter their arguments and submit further evidences before the hearing. However in your above sentence it seems that they will not look at the claim until 'immediately before' the hearing. This wouldn't give me time to produce a case.
Did you mean that they will produce the reports and send it to me and I will get time to produce a counter case, however as regards to them changing the decision in my favour, this is most likely to occur immediately before the hearing(even though they could have done it when recieving and look at the appeal. Is that what you meant?

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8 years 6 months ago #141982 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic Feeling uneasy about support with pip application
Also:

2. once they see my appeal and produce the report, is it likely to be personalised to my appeal e.g. will it says 'we think descriptor d is only for navigational help as was our guidance about navigation based public transport wherease the claimant wants it other grounds' or is it going to be the same detail lacking papers as with the mandatory reconsideration notice?

3. If they do simply state that the dispute is based on wheather planning journeys descripor d amounts to navigational help and that higher transport costs do not allow one to score on the descriptor, wouldnt this be a good case to just change to a paper hearing and submit your template detailing Judge Agnews perspective and relevant law about higher transport costs? It seems to me my case will not change in any other respects as the evidence is quite good and previous decision makers didn't change anything, so if its a matter of them choosing which law they want to apply, don't you think a paper hearing is sufficient at which point they'll take their pick and its not really neccesary for me to be there?

Many thanks

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