Income related ESA

Hi

I am nearly going demented with this .

can anyone signpost me too the correct regulation regarding calculating Income Related ESA please.

our situation now is this :

OH on ESA (CB) in Support Group + DLA HR care HR Mobility

( he went onto ESA IR when i had to leave work and be at home as his carer. )

My health was in a nose dive , so 2 later I claimed ESA +PIP.

Pip has been appealed in process.

ESA (CB) in Support Group .

I also have underlying entitlement to Carers Allowance. CA Not in payment.

We are in social housing and have no spare bedrooms. Done and dusted.

now on the .gov.uk website they sign post to this :

Calculators
Use one of the following:

entitledto - for information on income-related benefits, tax credits, contribution-based benefits, Council Tax Reduction, Carer’s Allowance, Universal Credit and how your benefits will be affected if you start work
Turn2us - for information on income-related benefits, Universal Credit and tax credits

I have used both correctly. Both have come up as saying the applicable amount is :

Applicable Amount
personal allowance(main phase): £114.85
client support component: £36.20
partner support component: £36.20
disability premium: £0.00
enhanced disability premium: £22.60
severe disability premium – lower rate: £0.00
severe disability premium – higher rate: £0.00
carer premium: £34.60
family premium: £0.00
child allowance (for 0 children): £0.00
disabled child premium (for 0 children): £0.00
severely disabled child premium (for 0 children): £0.00
Total applicable amount: £244.45

Income
Partner income from non-state pensions: £0.99
contribution based ESA: £218.60
assessed income for ESA(income-related): £219.59

ESA(income-related):
applicable amount: £244.45
less total assessed income: £219.59
ESA(income-related): £24.86

my council HB says the same and so does turn2us.

Now does anyone know if when calculating Income Related ESA for a couple if the Support Component is added (like other premiums are ) into the calculation of applicable amount twice?
1. as Claimant is in Support Group and
2. as Claimants partner/spouse is also in Support group.

I have today , ( and yesterday) had long conversations with DWP DM who say Our computer says no....you get the carers premium added , NOT the support component . Yet their own websites signpost to reliable accurate benefit calculators !!!

i am not being greedy here, all I am saying they have cocked up cocked up and cocked up some more ..from start to finish , big , big time....all I want is the correct calculation.

they have not included my support component because i get paid it, well so does my husband! ???? therefore , we are no longer on esa IR ..V odd. But is it correct what they are saying and doing?

thanks in advance

raindaisy wrote: Hi

I am nearly going demented with this .

can anyone signpost me too the correct regulation regarding calculating Income Related ESA please.

our situation now is this :

OH on ESA (CB) in Support Group + DLA HR care HR Mobility

( he went onto ESA IR when i had to leave work and be at home as his carer. )

My health was in a nose dive , so 2 later I claimed ESA +PIP.

Pip has been appealed in process.

ESA (CB) in Support Group .

I also have underlying entitlement to Carers Allowance. CA Not in payment.

We are in social housing and have no spare bedrooms. Done and dusted.

now on the .gov.uk website they sign post to this :

Calculators
Use one of the following:

entitledto - for information on income-related benefits, tax credits, contribution-based benefits, Council Tax Reduction, Carer’s Allowance, Universal Credit and how your benefits will be affected if you start work
Turn2us - for information on income-related benefits, Universal Credit and tax credits

I have used both correctly. Both have come up as saying the applicable amount is :

Applicable Amount
personal allowance(main phase): £114.85
client support component: £36.20
partner support component: £36.20
disability premium: £0.00
enhanced disability premium: £22.60
severe disability premium – lower rate: £0.00
severe disability premium – higher rate: £0.00
carer premium: £34.60
family premium: £0.00
child allowance (for 0 children): £0.00
disabled child premium (for 0 children): £0.00
severely disabled child premium (for 0 children): £0.00
Total applicable amount: £244.45

Income
Partner income from non-state pensions: £0.99
contribution based ESA: £218.60
assessed income for ESA(income-related): £219.59

ESA(income-related):
applicable amount: £244.45
less total assessed income: £219.59
ESA(income-related): £24.86

my council HB says the same and so does turn2us.

Now does anyone know if when calculating Income Related ESA for a couple if the Support Component is added (like other premiums are ) into the calculation of applicable amount twice?
1. as Claimant is in Support Group and
2. as Claimants partner/spouse is also in Support group.

I have today , ( and yesterday) had long conversations with DWP DM who say Our computer says no....you get the carers premium added , NOT the support component . Yet their own websites signpost to reliable accurate benefit calculators !!!

i am not being greedy here, all I am saying they have cocked up cocked up and cocked up some more ..from start to finish , big , big time....all I want is the correct calculation.

they have not included my support component because i get paid it, well so does my husband! ???? therefore , we are no longer on esa IR ..V odd. But is it correct what they are saying and doing?

thanks in advance

Hi rd,

Purely on the information that you have provided, my calculation work out to the following :

Maximum IR ESA entitlement for you and OH (as he will be paid all IR ESA for both of you) :

ESA Personal Allowance for a couple both over 18 = £114.85/Week

SG Component Addition as OH is in The SG = £36.20/Week

Carer Premium (CP) for your underlying entitlement to Carers Allowance (CA) = £34.60/Week.

Enhanced Disability Premium (EDP) (Otherwise known as The Disability Income Guarantee) Couple Rate as you and OH are both in The SG = £22.60/Week

They then total up your maximum IR ESA entitlement as a couple which is the total of all the above :

£114.85/Week
£ 36.20/Week
£ 34.60/Week
£ 22.60/Week

---

= £ 208.25/Week Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple.

---

Now they should add up any income that is classed as deductible "Household Income" for IR ESA Means Test purposes.

Neither DLA nor PIP is counted as Household Income for IR ESA means test purposes, so we do not have to deduct that.

However, all below will be classed as Household Income for the IR ESA means test :

Your OH's Works Pension = £00.99pence/Week
Your CB ESA Personal Allowance. = £73.10/Week
Your CB SG Component Addition = £36.20/Week

---

Total Deductible Household Income = £110.29/Week.

We then deduct your Total Deductible Household Income = £110.29/Week.

From your Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple = £208.25/Week.

£208.25/Week
-£110.29/Week

---

= £ 97.96/Week IR ESA entitlement.

---

So OH should receive IR ESA of £ 97.96/Week (£195.92/Fortnight)

Plus his small Works Pension of 99pence/Week

You should be paid in your own right :

Your CB ESA Personal Allowance. = £73.10/Week
Your CB SG Component Addition = £36.20/Week
Total CB ESA = £109.30/Week. (£218.60/Fortnight)

Which brings you back to your Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple of :

£ 97.96/Week (£195.92/Fortnight)
£ 0.99/Week Works Pension OH
£109.30/Week. (£218.60/Fortnight)

---

= £208.25/Week.

---

If, However, OH is entitled to CB ESA in his own right, as your Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple is £208.25/Week, and your Total Deductible Household Income would be OH's CB ESA of £109.30/Week. (£218.60/Fortnight) + 0.99pence/Week OH Works Pension + your CB ESA paid in your own right of £109.30/Week, (£218.60/Fortnight) you would not be entitled to any IR ESA top-ups at all as your Household Income would exceed your Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple.

i.e. Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple = £208.25/Week.

Total Deductible Household Income = £109.30/Week + 0.99pence/Week + £109.30/Week = £219.59/Week which exceeds the £208.25/Week.

Payment of CB ESA if entitled, will always take precedence over payment of IR ESA.

If you gain a Standard or Enhanced PIP Daily Living Award, this will mean that OH will be entitled to The Severe Disability Premium (SDP) Couple rate as he will then be classed as living alone and no one will be receiving payment of Carers Allowance (CA) for providing care for him. (CP doesn't count)

This will increase by : SDP Couple Rate = £123.70/Week, and as long as he could provide the requisite minimum 35 Hours/Week of care for you without it being in direct conflict with his limitations/disabilities he would also have an underlying entitlement to CA and be entitled to The CP of £34.60/Week.

So not only would a PIP Daily Living Award for you increase your income by the amount of PIP DL that you were awarded, it would also increase your Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple by : £123.70/Week + £34.60/Week. = £158.30/Week.

At current rates that would mean that your Total Maximum IR ESA weekly entitlement for both of you as a couple would be £208.25 + £158.30 = £366.55/Week.

Subtracting your Total Deductible Household Income from that would leave you with the relevant amount of payable IR ESA.

All the above is worked out under current : Benefit Rates 2015/16 and on the premise that The Tories do not change "things" via "Welfare Cuts" in the 08/07/15 Budget.

N.B. Having looked back at your previous posts, it looks like your OH is entitled to and being paid CB ESA, that being the case, as things currently stand on the figures that you have provided, you have no entitlement to IR ESA payments..

I do however hope that the above gives you an understanding of how IR ESA entitlement is worked out.

bro58

Thank you bro58!!

That clears that up!!! Therefore , for whatever reason entitledto calculator has it wrong and I re did it on turn2us and that says we will have to pay £29.99 rent per week! we are back to square one pre bedroom tax which was £40 per week!!!

it sign posts to DHP and if you look at my posts you will see that the DHP is one big fat hot potatoe for us atm!! Fair to say , it has come back to bite me in the arse! DHP will not be an option. full stop.

im not banking on getting PIP , my condition fluctuates extremely from 0 to 60 all the time. i can only say this when I am in the worst flares which take me out for days and some time 3 out 4 weeks 6 months of the year , as my OH is in heart failure , shutting the door and getting on with it , meaning tea toast and sleep, sleep sleep , day in and day out, suits me.. and him . what a mess. very depressing.

but there are some cases , 1000 times worse than us on this site and many others. You are right about the reforms, they are going to cut deeper. When OH gets re-assessed for PIP this year and he most likely lose mobility , he can walk 20 meters , but in pain and discomfort as his left ( stroke ) is affected with central post stroke pain ad from the onset of walking he has pain . but as i see it now. however , there are days he cant walk and stays indoors or in bed.

thanx again. i will apply for health costs now. dreading the hb letter.

yes Gordon , I tweeted them , they tweeted me back , and asked me to send the details , which I did. Just got this response today:

Hi *****

Many thanks for getting in contact – we really appreciate it.

As your emails states, there is a bug in our system and we are not calculating this correctly. We have started working on a fix and will endeavour to get this onto our site later this week.

Deepest apologies to you and your client for this error.

Best wishes

Phil
Dr. Phil Agulnik
Director
entitledto | accurate, independent & reliable
T: 07816 638590
E: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

so i am not not demented after all. Turn2us calculation came up with the worrying HB entitlement. Yet the Councils own calculator gave us full HB > I am going to sort this out once and for all tomorrow at CAB and then pop in to Council and remind them for the third time , to get their finger out and issue a decision notice. Its not rocket science...well ..it is ..in a complex way.... hopefully this info helps some of your members. You are right , and so is the DWP. Thank you !

Hi

I went to cab , last resort for me, they have not come back to me . But it appears , as I am now on CB ESA SG and OH is also ..we will have £10 per week extra , but will have to pay £30 per week rent and some towards CT. meaning as a result , we are worse off , we appealed the bedroom tax , because we could not pay the 25% , our appeal was allowed.

This is the situation I am still caring for OH , I get underlying entitlement , when i was getting CA , we were on income related ESA , and all the pass-ported benefits , as my health is in a nose dive, my prescription list is increasing .

Surely , would it be common sense to return to Carers Allowance ?, and cancel my esa claim? the worry and stress is just too much.

I am having surgery this weekend , and on 10th july my PIP appeal , im not holding my breath. i will wait and see what happens after PIP.

is there any regulations that say you can cancel a claim?