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DLA to PIP decision , I am devastated.
- Annieflower
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5 years 9 months ago #234690 by Annieflower
DLA to PIP decision , I am devastated. was created by Annieflower
Hi ,I am really upset at receiving my PIP decision letter. I recently applied for PIP having had a lifetime DLA award ( decided upon renewal 7 yrs ago), probably for 10 years or so, middle rate care and higher rate mobility and had previously won at appeal originally when I very first applied. My PIP award is standard rate for both. I am so disappointed.
I have MS ( progressive)and Sjögren’s syndrome with extensive systemic symptoms ,I had a previous stroke and had severe depression and anxiety for which I am receiving treatment. I had help from the CAB with the application but was not happy with the lack of detail so I downloaded the B&W guide and added much more information. I had a pile of letters from doctors and reports ( all within last 2 yearsor 3 yrs)which was so thick I could hardly get it in the envelope!
I was called for an assessment with 2 days notice, 60 miles away.
The assessor was unpleasant and did not engage and she barely looked at me, spoke very quietly and quickly,just typed furiously on her laptop ,while I sat slightly behind and to the side but not in her line of sight unless she turned her head.
The decisionseems to have been made only on the assessment findings , many of which I would strongly dispute. I know for a fact they have not written to the 2 health professionals I nominated,my GP and my consultant neurologist, both of whom I have seen in the 7 days and after DWP wrote to say they had “enough evidence to make their decision”.
My repeat prescription list is 8 pages and I have many other NHS departments/ professionals involved in my care, including Rheumatology,MS clinical nurse specialist,Bladder and Bowel &opthalmology
I am in despair, I thought all the evidence was going to prevent me going through this stress, but apparently not.
I don’t really know where to start and would appreciate some advice and encouragement as I am sat in tears.
Thanks in advance
I have MS ( progressive)and Sjögren’s syndrome with extensive systemic symptoms ,I had a previous stroke and had severe depression and anxiety for which I am receiving treatment. I had help from the CAB with the application but was not happy with the lack of detail so I downloaded the B&W guide and added much more information. I had a pile of letters from doctors and reports ( all within last 2 yearsor 3 yrs)which was so thick I could hardly get it in the envelope!
I was called for an assessment with 2 days notice, 60 miles away.
The assessor was unpleasant and did not engage and she barely looked at me, spoke very quietly and quickly,just typed furiously on her laptop ,while I sat slightly behind and to the side but not in her line of sight unless she turned her head.
The decisionseems to have been made only on the assessment findings , many of which I would strongly dispute. I know for a fact they have not written to the 2 health professionals I nominated,my GP and my consultant neurologist, both of whom I have seen in the 7 days and after DWP wrote to say they had “enough evidence to make their decision”.
My repeat prescription list is 8 pages and I have many other NHS departments/ professionals involved in my care, including Rheumatology,MS clinical nurse specialist,Bladder and Bowel &opthalmology
I am in despair, I thought all the evidence was going to prevent me going through this stress, but apparently not.
I don’t really know where to start and would appreciate some advice and encouragement as I am sat in tears.
Thanks in advance
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- Gordon
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5 years 9 months ago #234693 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic DLA to PIP decision , I am devastated.
A
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
In case you are not aware, your real name appears to be showing in the forum, if you want to change this then follow the instructions in the following FAQ
My full name is showing, how can I stop it?
Were you hoping for a higher award as the one you received is equivalent to the DLA you had given the stricter criteria that PIP uses?
What did you actually score?
The first stage to challenging a Decision is for you to request a Mandatory Reconsideration, this needs to be done in writing to the DWP, within one month of the Decision, to the office that dealt with your claim, have a look at our PIP MR & Appeal guide for details of the process, the PIP area also has template letters that you can use to make the request with.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
You should contact the DWP for a copy of the assessment report if you have not already done so, I would phone them but again follow up the request in writing. Once you have the assessment report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and will then be able to argue against them.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
"the assessor recorded that I walked 50m, I did but they have failed to document that I had to stop every 10m for a rest due to breathlessness"
than their opinions
"based on my observations of the claimant walking I believe that they can reliably walk more than 200m.
When you have a better idea of the issues with your claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gordon
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
In case you are not aware, your real name appears to be showing in the forum, if you want to change this then follow the instructions in the following FAQ
My full name is showing, how can I stop it?
Were you hoping for a higher award as the one you received is equivalent to the DLA you had given the stricter criteria that PIP uses?
What did you actually score?
The first stage to challenging a Decision is for you to request a Mandatory Reconsideration, this needs to be done in writing to the DWP, within one month of the Decision, to the office that dealt with your claim, have a look at our PIP MR & Appeal guide for details of the process, the PIP area also has template letters that you can use to make the request with.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
You should contact the DWP for a copy of the assessment report if you have not already done so, I would phone them but again follow up the request in writing. Once you have the assessment report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and will then be able to argue against them.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
"the assessor recorded that I walked 50m, I did but they have failed to document that I had to stop every 10m for a rest due to breathlessness"
than their opinions
"based on my observations of the claimant walking I believe that they can reliably walk more than 200m.
When you have a better idea of the issues with your claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Annieflower, Carly
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- Annieflower
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5 years 9 months ago #234761 by Annieflower
Replied by Annieflower on topic DLA to PIP decision , I am devastated.
Thanks Gordon,
the assessor completely overruled my mental health needs based on her opinion of what i looked like despite my being in tears and stating I still have occasional suicidal ideation and self harm impulses and huge anxiety issues. Because I was discharged in the spring I don't have a problem apparently. my ex psychiatrist and ex care coordinator both said they were willing to provide reports when I asked hypothetically when i last saw them.
I scored 2 for food prep, I thought I should have got at least 4. the assessor has seemingly based her marking on my apparently having 'adequate cognition' despite my saying I get very tired and forgetful and cannot physically do the chopping or moving pans etc, due to muscle weakness and pain plus huge fatigue especially at the end of the day etc.
I got 2 for eating (I choke often) and have muscle weakness and little saliva due to the rheumatological condition and MS.
i got nothing for managing treatments despite my saying i needed help.
I got 2 for bathing
I got 2 for toileting needs, I really think I should have got more due to having to perform ISC due to retention and infections and i clearly said this at my assessment, I said I needed help to do it as i haven't been able to master it yet for myself.however since then I am able to perform it now but it is difficult. i stated I have extreme urgency for both too which naturally makes me anxious.
I got 2 for dressing even though I didn't tick that section!
0 for both communicating and reading.( i am ok with these)
0 for mixing with people -i said my anxiety really prevents me doing anything without support.
0 for budgeting even though i said i can't do complex stuff because of anxiety/panic
0 for planning a journey even though I simply couldn't do it,again due to anxiety and memory and anxiety re toilet facilities etc quite apart from the physical stuff
i scored 10 for moving around, I had ticked the less than 20m box because although I can walk a bit further I am in ever increasing pain from joints and my leg muscles start to spasm after perhaps 12 steps, my balance is wobbly, I cannot feel my feet, plus fatigue meaning that I cannot repeat this again the same day or safely reliably etc etc
I don't know whether I have the mental strength to pursue this even though my neurologist told me to fight and I have a raft of other medical support.
My mental health needs have been completely ignored , the HP said I didn't exhibit any mental health problems or anxiety even though I was cry during the assessment, I told her I was still having suicidal ideation from time to time and self- harm impulses and had got Diazepam from the gp because of anxiety around the assessment and had palpitations and panicky feelings.
thanks for reading this far!
the assessor completely overruled my mental health needs based on her opinion of what i looked like despite my being in tears and stating I still have occasional suicidal ideation and self harm impulses and huge anxiety issues. Because I was discharged in the spring I don't have a problem apparently. my ex psychiatrist and ex care coordinator both said they were willing to provide reports when I asked hypothetically when i last saw them.
I scored 2 for food prep, I thought I should have got at least 4. the assessor has seemingly based her marking on my apparently having 'adequate cognition' despite my saying I get very tired and forgetful and cannot physically do the chopping or moving pans etc, due to muscle weakness and pain plus huge fatigue especially at the end of the day etc.
I got 2 for eating (I choke often) and have muscle weakness and little saliva due to the rheumatological condition and MS.
i got nothing for managing treatments despite my saying i needed help.
I got 2 for bathing
I got 2 for toileting needs, I really think I should have got more due to having to perform ISC due to retention and infections and i clearly said this at my assessment, I said I needed help to do it as i haven't been able to master it yet for myself.however since then I am able to perform it now but it is difficult. i stated I have extreme urgency for both too which naturally makes me anxious.
I got 2 for dressing even though I didn't tick that section!
0 for both communicating and reading.( i am ok with these)
0 for mixing with people -i said my anxiety really prevents me doing anything without support.
0 for budgeting even though i said i can't do complex stuff because of anxiety/panic
0 for planning a journey even though I simply couldn't do it,again due to anxiety and memory and anxiety re toilet facilities etc quite apart from the physical stuff
i scored 10 for moving around, I had ticked the less than 20m box because although I can walk a bit further I am in ever increasing pain from joints and my leg muscles start to spasm after perhaps 12 steps, my balance is wobbly, I cannot feel my feet, plus fatigue meaning that I cannot repeat this again the same day or safely reliably etc etc
I don't know whether I have the mental strength to pursue this even though my neurologist told me to fight and I have a raft of other medical support.
My mental health needs have been completely ignored , the HP said I didn't exhibit any mental health problems or anxiety even though I was cry during the assessment, I told her I was still having suicidal ideation from time to time and self- harm impulses and had got Diazepam from the gp because of anxiety around the assessment and had palpitations and panicky feelings.
thanks for reading this far!
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- BIS
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5 years 9 months ago #234765 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic DLA to PIP decision , I am devastated.
Hi Ann58
Only you can decide whether you want to challenge this decision. Although you have told us what you scored, that sounds like the decision letter, it doesn't sound as if you have the assessment report which will provide you with more detail (but I could be wrong).
The DWP almost never contact the listed names on a claim form. They only do it if they think they don't have enough information and then it tends only to be the GP. You said you sent in a lot.
The other thing you need to understand is that the PIP process doesn't focus on your conditions only how they might impact on your ability to meet the specific criteria. Having lots of medical evidence isn't always as helpful as you think unless you can tie that evidence back to the specific PIP criteria. (You would hope the assessor and decision-makers would do this, but they don't always.) So if you have a letter that says about your mental health and anxiety, when you're writing about whether you can prepare food - you need to flag up the letter. Eg.
"Because of the muscle weakness in my hands due to my MS (see letter from Dr X dated 9/12/18), I am unable to grip a knife in order to cut up vegetables. I have tried to use adapted cutlery, but this has been impossible because I lack the manual dexterity needed. Also because of my poor mental health and anxiety (see letter from Consultant Psychiatrist Dr Y dated 12/04/18) I get anxious around knives and hot water. (You can say whatever is appropriate here.
I prefer to push it right under their nose because I think they often read the evidence in isolation.
By the way, you won't score anything for managing treatments, unless you have been prescribed particular treatment, like physio that you have to do at home either by yourself or with the help of someone and that if you didn't do it, it would cause your condition to deteriorate.
A lot of members feel aggrieved by assessors that make assumptions about mental health and appearances. This you can challenge not just by the experts, but if you have any friends or family who are able to provide a letter saying what they really know about you and the impact.
BIS
Only you can decide whether you want to challenge this decision. Although you have told us what you scored, that sounds like the decision letter, it doesn't sound as if you have the assessment report which will provide you with more detail (but I could be wrong).
The DWP almost never contact the listed names on a claim form. They only do it if they think they don't have enough information and then it tends only to be the GP. You said you sent in a lot.
The other thing you need to understand is that the PIP process doesn't focus on your conditions only how they might impact on your ability to meet the specific criteria. Having lots of medical evidence isn't always as helpful as you think unless you can tie that evidence back to the specific PIP criteria. (You would hope the assessor and decision-makers would do this, but they don't always.) So if you have a letter that says about your mental health and anxiety, when you're writing about whether you can prepare food - you need to flag up the letter. Eg.
"Because of the muscle weakness in my hands due to my MS (see letter from Dr X dated 9/12/18), I am unable to grip a knife in order to cut up vegetables. I have tried to use adapted cutlery, but this has been impossible because I lack the manual dexterity needed. Also because of my poor mental health and anxiety (see letter from Consultant Psychiatrist Dr Y dated 12/04/18) I get anxious around knives and hot water. (You can say whatever is appropriate here.
I prefer to push it right under their nose because I think they often read the evidence in isolation.
By the way, you won't score anything for managing treatments, unless you have been prescribed particular treatment, like physio that you have to do at home either by yourself or with the help of someone and that if you didn't do it, it would cause your condition to deteriorate.
A lot of members feel aggrieved by assessors that make assumptions about mental health and appearances. This you can challenge not just by the experts, but if you have any friends or family who are able to provide a letter saying what they really know about you and the impact.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- joen
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5 years 9 months ago #234785 by joen
Replied by joen on topic DLA to PIP decision , I am devastated.
Hello Ann58
I too have Primary Progressive MS which includes the problems you have highlighted.
It's a well-known fact that the MS causes cognitive difficulties in people and I'm surprised you didn't have a score for this.
My award was a ongoing one without the need for being medically assessed again.
I hope in your reply to the DWP that you mention the cognitive difficulties you have which includes memory loss etc.
Good luck for the future.
Joen.
I too have Primary Progressive MS which includes the problems you have highlighted.
It's a well-known fact that the MS causes cognitive difficulties in people and I'm surprised you didn't have a score for this.
My award was a ongoing one without the need for being medically assessed again.
I hope in your reply to the DWP that you mention the cognitive difficulties you have which includes memory loss etc.
Good luck for the future.
Joen.
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- Annieflower
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5 years 9 months ago #234801 by Annieflower
Replied by Annieflower on topic DLA to PIP decision , I am devastated.
Thank you BIS for that very helpful advice, I presume I can request a copy of the assessment report?
There were a few paragraphs explaining things, not sure if it was the actual report though chunks of what must have been said in the report were quoted ,I think, presumably used to justify their decision making. Thank you for taking the time to help.
There were a few paragraphs explaining things, not sure if it was the actual report though chunks of what must have been said in the report were quoted ,I think, presumably used to justify their decision making. Thank you for taking the time to help.
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