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Contrib ESA and property income
- bbzpda
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5 years 7 months ago #240245 by bbzpda
Contrib ESA and property income was created by bbzpda
I am on contributory ESA.
Several years ago I did a small amount of permitted work (well under the weekly allowance) for a year or two. I did this as self-employed.
I have now been informed that DWP may take the money back as I also received income from a property I rent out. They are saying the rental income counts as regular income and that the two figures together breach the weekly PW allowance and so all my ESA should have been stopped.
As I understand it, this rental should not be classed as self-employed income, it is investment income. Investment income does not count when adding up any permitted work earnings, nor does it have any effect on contributory ESA (which is a non means tested benefit).
Am I correct?
The desk officer at DWP said they didn't know, all they knew is that there is an issue that has been raised and I have to send in loads of paperwork relating to the property.
Several years ago I did a small amount of permitted work (well under the weekly allowance) for a year or two. I did this as self-employed.
I have now been informed that DWP may take the money back as I also received income from a property I rent out. They are saying the rental income counts as regular income and that the two figures together breach the weekly PW allowance and so all my ESA should have been stopped.
As I understand it, this rental should not be classed as self-employed income, it is investment income. Investment income does not count when adding up any permitted work earnings, nor does it have any effect on contributory ESA (which is a non means tested benefit).
Am I correct?
The desk officer at DWP said they didn't know, all they knew is that there is an issue that has been raised and I have to send in loads of paperwork relating to the property.
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5 years 7 months ago #240253 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Contrib ESA and property income
PDA
I don't think I can give you a definitive answer as I suspect it will depend on your involvement in managing the property(s).
So if you use a management company and have no involvement in the properties other than receiving the income, then I do not think that this will be considered as part of the Permitted Work that you did.
However, if you do all or even part of the management yourself then I think that there is a possibility that it might be.
Gordon
I don't think I can give you a definitive answer as I suspect it will depend on your involvement in managing the property(s).
So if you use a management company and have no involvement in the properties other than receiving the income, then I do not think that this will be considered as part of the Permitted Work that you did.
However, if you do all or even part of the management yourself then I think that there is a possibility that it might be.
Gordon
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- bbzpda
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5 years 7 months ago #240259 by bbzpda
Replied by bbzpda on topic Contrib ESA and property income
Thanks.
I use an agent.
But have to say I really worried. Really worried. They are talking about me paying back all ESA for the two years in question.
Can I expect any other penalty? If this has breached the PW limits then it was a genuine mistake.
I use an agent.
But have to say I really worried. Really worried. They are talking about me paying back all ESA for the two years in question.
Can I expect any other penalty? If this has breached the PW limits then it was a genuine mistake.
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5 years 7 months ago #240261 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Contrib ESA and property income
PDA
There might be a Civil Penalty, usually £50, then it will be down to the amount of the overpayment, you are in the area, two years of ESA, where fraud might be raised as an issue but they would need to show intent which would not be the case.
Gordon
There might be a Civil Penalty, usually £50, then it will be down to the amount of the overpayment, you are in the area, two years of ESA, where fraud might be raised as an issue but they would need to show intent which would not be the case.
Gordon
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5 years 7 months ago #240265 by bbzpda
Replied by bbzpda on topic Contrib ESA and property income
I've been looking at the rules in the DWP decision makers guides,
It is all very confusing.
Seems that as far as PW is concerned the rules about earnings are the ones that apply for the income-related ESA.
The question of rental income is hard to understand as this point. In one place they say renting out a single house is NOT classed as a business and is an investment, and then they say the income should be considered under the rules for income other than earnings (Chap 51).
However, if I was just on contrib ESA and did not PW, then those rules in chap 51 would not be considered as far as I can see,
It is all very confusing.
Seems that as far as PW is concerned the rules about earnings are the ones that apply for the income-related ESA.
The question of rental income is hard to understand as this point. In one place they say renting out a single house is NOT classed as a business and is an investment, and then they say the income should be considered under the rules for income other than earnings (Chap 51).
However, if I was just on contrib ESA and did not PW, then those rules in chap 51 would not be considered as far as I can see,
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5 years 7 months ago #240275 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Contrib ESA and property income
PDA
Personally I think you are safe but I don't count. If they do start to raise concerns then ask for the references to the legislation.
Gordon
Personally I think you are safe but I don't count. If they do start to raise concerns then ask for the references to the legislation.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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