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URGENT: Tribunal hearing on Tuesday! Help needed!
- Izzy13
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5 years 3 months ago #242500 by Izzy13
URGENT: Tribunal hearing on Tuesday! Help needed! was created by Izzy13
Hi All,
I'm hoping for a little advice on behalf of my sister in law.
She has her appeal date set for next Tuesday. The appointment arrived a few days before Xmas, so quite short notice with the Holidays disrupting everything!
Needless to say she has not been able to get any appointments with CAB or similar to help her go through all the paperwork until after the date of her appeal and so is not prepared at all and they cannot get anyone to represent her on the day either.
She has already requested a postponement of the date because of this (on the advice of the CAB), but I'm not hopeful as I don't think the judge will think it is a good enough reason to rearrange the appeal date.
Therefore myself and my husband (who will be accompying her to the appeal) are attempting to try and prepare her as best we can in this week we have left, but I'm a little lost on what we should concentrate our efforts on.
So far we have a complete copy of all forms and evidence sent to DWP, The MR letter outlining why we feel she should have scored more points on the motobility section (this was the only section we were contesting), and we also have the copy of the medical assessment as well.
Tonight she has just told me of the existence of the appeal bundle of papers, all 108 pages!!! That she hasn't shown anyone, as she didn't know she had to, as she thought she just had to take it to court with her on the day!
Can anyone please advise on what notes we should be making? Or any advice on how I can tackle this in such limited time?
Also after reading through the MR decision letter she received, I am not sure if they have applied the descriptor for moving around correctly? And I would very much like someone else's opinion on it?
In the MR decision better they have put:
"You said you have difficulties moving around. At the assessment you were observed to walk, unaided, for approximately 10 metres with an average pace. You appeared steady. You had normal power in both legs, with restrictions in hip movements. You reported that you are able to walk for around 10 minutes before you would have to stop due to pain. This is supported by your consultant letter which states that you can walk for around 5 to 10 minutes before having to rest. It is reasonable that in 5 minutes, at the pace you were observed walking, you would manage to walk more than 200 metres. Your doctor confirms however that you are in pain when walking so it is likely that a distance this far would not be repeatable. I decided you can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres reliably."
Can someone tell me if the assumptions they have made and descriptor choice above sounds correct?
At the moment she has 4 points for the moving around, as they have decided she can move 50-200m reliably. We are arguing that as she cannot do this activity reapeatadly, reliably and without increasing her pain levels causing an exacerbation in her condition, that this is the incorrect descriptor.
As she has rheumatoid arthritis, she is unable to walk any distance without pain, and the more she walks the more painful it becomes, as stated by her doctor.
Are we interpreting the descriptor correctly?? Should she be getting 8 points like we think? Or are the DWP correct in their choice of descriptor?
I would be very grateful for any help with clarification on this
Thanks in advance
Izzy
I'm hoping for a little advice on behalf of my sister in law.
She has her appeal date set for next Tuesday. The appointment arrived a few days before Xmas, so quite short notice with the Holidays disrupting everything!
Needless to say she has not been able to get any appointments with CAB or similar to help her go through all the paperwork until after the date of her appeal and so is not prepared at all and they cannot get anyone to represent her on the day either.
She has already requested a postponement of the date because of this (on the advice of the CAB), but I'm not hopeful as I don't think the judge will think it is a good enough reason to rearrange the appeal date.
Therefore myself and my husband (who will be accompying her to the appeal) are attempting to try and prepare her as best we can in this week we have left, but I'm a little lost on what we should concentrate our efforts on.
So far we have a complete copy of all forms and evidence sent to DWP, The MR letter outlining why we feel she should have scored more points on the motobility section (this was the only section we were contesting), and we also have the copy of the medical assessment as well.
Tonight she has just told me of the existence of the appeal bundle of papers, all 108 pages!!! That she hasn't shown anyone, as she didn't know she had to, as she thought she just had to take it to court with her on the day!
Can anyone please advise on what notes we should be making? Or any advice on how I can tackle this in such limited time?
Also after reading through the MR decision letter she received, I am not sure if they have applied the descriptor for moving around correctly? And I would very much like someone else's opinion on it?
In the MR decision better they have put:
"You said you have difficulties moving around. At the assessment you were observed to walk, unaided, for approximately 10 metres with an average pace. You appeared steady. You had normal power in both legs, with restrictions in hip movements. You reported that you are able to walk for around 10 minutes before you would have to stop due to pain. This is supported by your consultant letter which states that you can walk for around 5 to 10 minutes before having to rest. It is reasonable that in 5 minutes, at the pace you were observed walking, you would manage to walk more than 200 metres. Your doctor confirms however that you are in pain when walking so it is likely that a distance this far would not be repeatable. I decided you can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres reliably."
Can someone tell me if the assumptions they have made and descriptor choice above sounds correct?
At the moment she has 4 points for the moving around, as they have decided she can move 50-200m reliably. We are arguing that as she cannot do this activity reapeatadly, reliably and without increasing her pain levels causing an exacerbation in her condition, that this is the incorrect descriptor.
As she has rheumatoid arthritis, she is unable to walk any distance without pain, and the more she walks the more painful it becomes, as stated by her doctor.
Are we interpreting the descriptor correctly?? Should she be getting 8 points like we think? Or are the DWP correct in their choice of descriptor?
I would be very grateful for any help with clarification on this
Thanks in advance
Izzy
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- Gordon
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5 years 3 months ago #242521 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic URGENT: Tribunal hearing on Tuesday! Help needed!
ET
I'm afraid the Judge in charge of your SIL's hearing is unlikely to agree to an adjournment they will likely take the view that she has had since the appeal was requested to prepare her case.
The appeal will be solely concerned with the panel understanding how she meets the criteria for a Mobility award. So, you need to understand what that criteria is and consider how you can show that she meets it, this will consist of her own testimony and any evidence that is available in support of that.
Our PIP Claim guide is on the following link as are our appeal guides.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
Average walking speed is 72/minute so the maximum distance that PIP considers, 200m, would be covered by a healthy person in just three minutes! there are slower rates; 48m/min walking slowly and 36m/min walking very slowly but if she has said she can walk for ten minutes then she is still assessing herself as being able to walk more than what PIP will consider, even the Consultant's letter onlty places her in the range 50m-200 which is what she has scored for.
You are going to have to show that she cannot "reliably" walk more than 50m to score sufficiently for an award.
Things to think about
She is not required to walk pain free but any pain that restricts the distance that she can walk should be taken into account.
Specifically for the Moving Around activity, if she is able to walk but is in severe pain when doing so, then you can argue that her walking is not to a necessary standard and should be disregarded.
The legal test requires her to stand and then move (walk), so if she has problems getting up then you should argue these as well.
If she walks slowly then it must take her at least twice the time to cover the distance as a healthy person would, this could be down to the speed of her walking but could also be the result of her having to stop.
She must be able to repeat the distance, so if she could walk it once but not then be able to walk it again within a reasonable timescale then she should be classed as unable to repeat the activity.
I'm afraid I can't tell you how to show her walking is more restricted but things you need to think about is what she can't do, for example; what can she walk in her house, how far is the toilet from where she normally sits, things that will count against her are any trips that she makes outside, so for example, how does she do her shopping?
She must be able to walk the distance she can, reliably and on the majority of days, both these terms are defined in the PIP Claim guide.
Gordon
I'm afraid the Judge in charge of your SIL's hearing is unlikely to agree to an adjournment they will likely take the view that she has had since the appeal was requested to prepare her case.
The appeal will be solely concerned with the panel understanding how she meets the criteria for a Mobility award. So, you need to understand what that criteria is and consider how you can show that she meets it, this will consist of her own testimony and any evidence that is available in support of that.
Our PIP Claim guide is on the following link as are our appeal guides.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
Average walking speed is 72/minute so the maximum distance that PIP considers, 200m, would be covered by a healthy person in just three minutes! there are slower rates; 48m/min walking slowly and 36m/min walking very slowly but if she has said she can walk for ten minutes then she is still assessing herself as being able to walk more than what PIP will consider, even the Consultant's letter onlty places her in the range 50m-200 which is what she has scored for.
You are going to have to show that she cannot "reliably" walk more than 50m to score sufficiently for an award.
Things to think about
She is not required to walk pain free but any pain that restricts the distance that she can walk should be taken into account.
Specifically for the Moving Around activity, if she is able to walk but is in severe pain when doing so, then you can argue that her walking is not to a necessary standard and should be disregarded.
The legal test requires her to stand and then move (walk), so if she has problems getting up then you should argue these as well.
If she walks slowly then it must take her at least twice the time to cover the distance as a healthy person would, this could be down to the speed of her walking but could also be the result of her having to stop.
She must be able to repeat the distance, so if she could walk it once but not then be able to walk it again within a reasonable timescale then she should be classed as unable to repeat the activity.
I'm afraid I can't tell you how to show her walking is more restricted but things you need to think about is what she can't do, for example; what can she walk in her house, how far is the toilet from where she normally sits, things that will count against her are any trips that she makes outside, so for example, how does she do her shopping?
She must be able to walk the distance she can, reliably and on the majority of days, both these terms are defined in the PIP Claim guide.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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