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PIP Mobility - 1. Planning and Following Journeys
- LL26
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16 hours 3 minutes ago #303597 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP Mobility - 1. Planning and Following Journeys
Hi JW,
This is a complicated area of law, so maybe it was my fault for not explaining more clearly.
OK first question
Regulation 7 provides that if more than one descriptor within the same set applies equally then DWP should award the higher value.(This applies to each and every descriptor in both Daily Living and Mobility components)
I'll give an easier example than mobility 1 by considering mobility 2.
So maybe you have a variable condition with fatigue.
50 % of days you can walk 50- 200m (4 pts - 2b)(various days, randomly interspersed.)
On the remaining days so, also 50%, you can only walk 1-20m. (12 pts - 2 e) Both variants are equal days so under Reg 7 - 0 to 20m is the higher score so that is what you should be scored.
Reg 7 also provides that if more than one descriptor in the same set apply unequally, then the one for the most days should be awarded
So to stick with Mobility 2 as 2nd example
Here 60% of days is 50- 200m
35% is 1-20m
5% is 20-50m
Correct award is now 50-200m 4 pts
Reg 7 also allows you to aggregate points if you fall within more than one point scoring descriptor within the set but none reach 51%.
Hence Example 3
10% over 200m (2a no points)
35% 20-50m
25% 1- 20m
30% 50-200m
For 90% of days points scoring descriptors are met, but the correct award here is for 20-50m as this is the most prevalent.
Second question
When I spoke of 'a justified discrepancy ' this is the rationale behind the difference in points for needing to be accompanied. This was Parliament's intention as discussed in the when this piece of legislation was proposed.
Third question
Which descriptor in mobility 1 applies to you- 1e or 1f?
Taking in to account Reg 7 -
Think of the following
1. Do I have a health problem causing issues with planning and following journeys for the majority of days?
2. What can't I do and why? (Eg I get OPD, I can't go out and/or with help I can somewhat overcome OPD.)
3. Over say 1 or 2 months - what is the percentage of days that fall under 1e or 1f. (For this example I am assuming only 1e or 1f apply, because even if lower scoring activities apply these will be discounted if higher scoring values always apply.)
4. Mobility 1f applies for at least 50% and 1e for 50% then 1f is correct award.If 1e applies for more than 50% then 1e is correct.
5. 1e - you avoid going out because it causes OPD and/or you do go out but get OPD.
6. 1f - being accompanied alleviates OPD so you can get out and things are somewhat easier.
7. Reg 7 provides points for 'majority of days' - if you manage to grit your teeth and go out whilst suffering OPD, eg hungry and no food in, you need to go to the shop...this won't matter. This is much less than 50%. No problem.
8. The argument you need to adopt is to explain you seldom go out alone as it is too overwhelming. You 'avoid' for this reason. (Remember you need to be able to do ALL journeys not just a select one to eg friend's house or local shop. - this infringes the repetition rule.)
9 There is a case about avoidance- if you don't go out and journey because of your anxiety it is likely to be OPD if it is so severe this is the reason you don't go anywhere.
10. Being accompanied alleviates OPD - if this isn't the case then you will NEVER be able to say 1f is correct, because if you still suffer OPD whilst accompanied on familiar journeys, then it is clear you can't undertake a journey due to OPD - hence 1e is correct.
You need to think about the potential counter arguments, which are raised by the above
Do you actually have OPD at all? -1e is wrong.
But if you suffer from less than OPD anxiety then it is likely you can show you need to be accompanied on familiar routes as otherwise you can not go along these to an acceptable standard or perhaps not safely, within time and or repeatedly.
I apologise if this is still difficult to understand. It very complex and I can't think how else to explain.
Hopefully this will clarify things for you.
LL26
This is a complicated area of law, so maybe it was my fault for not explaining more clearly.
OK first question
Regulation 7 provides that if more than one descriptor within the same set applies equally then DWP should award the higher value.(This applies to each and every descriptor in both Daily Living and Mobility components)
I'll give an easier example than mobility 1 by considering mobility 2.
So maybe you have a variable condition with fatigue.
50 % of days you can walk 50- 200m (4 pts - 2b)(various days, randomly interspersed.)
On the remaining days so, also 50%, you can only walk 1-20m. (12 pts - 2 e) Both variants are equal days so under Reg 7 - 0 to 20m is the higher score so that is what you should be scored.
Reg 7 also provides that if more than one descriptor in the same set apply unequally, then the one for the most days should be awarded
So to stick with Mobility 2 as 2nd example
Here 60% of days is 50- 200m
35% is 1-20m
5% is 20-50m
Correct award is now 50-200m 4 pts
Reg 7 also allows you to aggregate points if you fall within more than one point scoring descriptor within the set but none reach 51%.
Hence Example 3
10% over 200m (2a no points)
35% 20-50m
25% 1- 20m
30% 50-200m
For 90% of days points scoring descriptors are met, but the correct award here is for 20-50m as this is the most prevalent.
Second question
When I spoke of 'a justified discrepancy ' this is the rationale behind the difference in points for needing to be accompanied. This was Parliament's intention as discussed in the when this piece of legislation was proposed.
Third question
Which descriptor in mobility 1 applies to you- 1e or 1f?
Taking in to account Reg 7 -
Think of the following
1. Do I have a health problem causing issues with planning and following journeys for the majority of days?
2. What can't I do and why? (Eg I get OPD, I can't go out and/or with help I can somewhat overcome OPD.)
3. Over say 1 or 2 months - what is the percentage of days that fall under 1e or 1f. (For this example I am assuming only 1e or 1f apply, because even if lower scoring activities apply these will be discounted if higher scoring values always apply.)
4. Mobility 1f applies for at least 50% and 1e for 50% then 1f is correct award.If 1e applies for more than 50% then 1e is correct.
5. 1e - you avoid going out because it causes OPD and/or you do go out but get OPD.
6. 1f - being accompanied alleviates OPD so you can get out and things are somewhat easier.
7. Reg 7 provides points for 'majority of days' - if you manage to grit your teeth and go out whilst suffering OPD, eg hungry and no food in, you need to go to the shop...this won't matter. This is much less than 50%. No problem.
8. The argument you need to adopt is to explain you seldom go out alone as it is too overwhelming. You 'avoid' for this reason. (Remember you need to be able to do ALL journeys not just a select one to eg friend's house or local shop. - this infringes the repetition rule.)
9 There is a case about avoidance- if you don't go out and journey because of your anxiety it is likely to be OPD if it is so severe this is the reason you don't go anywhere.
10. Being accompanied alleviates OPD - if this isn't the case then you will NEVER be able to say 1f is correct, because if you still suffer OPD whilst accompanied on familiar journeys, then it is clear you can't undertake a journey due to OPD - hence 1e is correct.
You need to think about the potential counter arguments, which are raised by the above
Do you actually have OPD at all? -1e is wrong.
But if you suffer from less than OPD anxiety then it is likely you can show you need to be accompanied on familiar routes as otherwise you can not go along these to an acceptable standard or perhaps not safely, within time and or repeatedly.
I apologise if this is still difficult to understand. It very complex and I can't think how else to explain.
Hopefully this will clarify things for you.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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