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Successful PIP Tribunal - What Next?
- Aaron
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1 week ago #305018 by Aaron
Successful PIP Tribunal - What Next? was created by Aaron
Hello,
So after first starting my PIP application in 2023 and scoring 0 points, then increasing to 2 points on MR I have now had it confirmed by the tribunal that I should indeed score 15 points and the award it dated for 5 years from my original application date.
My main question is, is it worth asking for a statement of reasons for the tribunals decision?
I am happy with the result especially as I scored 4 on one descriptor however I don't understand how they didn't award me points in one area or that the award is 5 years since my conditions won't change (for better or worse) I would of expected a longer award.
Just wondering if their statement of reasons could be useful when it comes time for a review.
So after first starting my PIP application in 2023 and scoring 0 points, then increasing to 2 points on MR I have now had it confirmed by the tribunal that I should indeed score 15 points and the award it dated for 5 years from my original application date.
My main question is, is it worth asking for a statement of reasons for the tribunals decision?
I am happy with the result especially as I scored 4 on one descriptor however I don't understand how they didn't award me points in one area or that the award is 5 years since my conditions won't change (for better or worse) I would of expected a longer award.
Just wondering if their statement of reasons could be useful when it comes time for a review.
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- LL26
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5 days 2 hours ago #305068 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Successful PIP Tribunal - What Next?
Hi Aaron,
Firstly well done on your successful tribunal appeal. (It is always encouraging for other members to know that tribunal appeals do work, and thus it is worthwhile to continue to appeal, despite zero or very points awarded by DWP. )
Presumably at 15 points you were awarded enhanced rate, -I assume this is for Daily Living. The Tribunal Rules state that once 12 points (enhanced rate) is reached, the time don't need to consider any more points. Thus might mean they simply award eg 2pts for needing an aid rather discussing a need for assistance, or they might just not discuss at all. At 15pts you won't get any more benefit, as you're on enhanced rate. Thus, even if you could appeal there is nothing to appeal.
In order to appeal you would need to find an error of law, but in your scenario nothing would change and hence any error won't be material and you can't achieve more money here.
You could ask for the written statement of reasons, but this may not add anything to what you already know, especially if the tribunal didn't consider further points once over 12 had been scored.
In my view the decision notice is the most important thing here. On any subsequent review always send in a copy of the tribunal decision. Also if you have a copy of the past claim or review form you can refer to this and say eg 2022 review form I said that I needed assistance to cook, this was not awarded by the tribunal but as 15 pts were reached, the tribunal did not need to discuss this.
(I don't think that tribunals necessarily start at descriptor 1 and work through the list. For example, if someone had extremely bad PTSD with serious behavioural issues, it might be obvious they score 8 points under 'engaging with others' and need physical help to manage toilet needs, due to problems with catheters, there's no need to decide whether he will need assistance to cook a meal due to poor memory etc. )
You can appeal just the length of an award. Again this requires a material error of law Award lengths tend to be guidelines rather than being fixed in law. It will be hard to show that a tribunal made an error of law when they have a discretion.
By all means ask for The WSOR but it probably won't provide any information that is useful. Also be mindful that if the tribunal actually decided not to award points, as opposed to not needing to discuss, then if you send that into DWP it is likely that DWP will follow the tribunal in not awarding the same points!
I hope this helps.
LL26
Firstly well done on your successful tribunal appeal. (It is always encouraging for other members to know that tribunal appeals do work, and thus it is worthwhile to continue to appeal, despite zero or very points awarded by DWP. )
Presumably at 15 points you were awarded enhanced rate, -I assume this is for Daily Living. The Tribunal Rules state that once 12 points (enhanced rate) is reached, the time don't need to consider any more points. Thus might mean they simply award eg 2pts for needing an aid rather discussing a need for assistance, or they might just not discuss at all. At 15pts you won't get any more benefit, as you're on enhanced rate. Thus, even if you could appeal there is nothing to appeal.
In order to appeal you would need to find an error of law, but in your scenario nothing would change and hence any error won't be material and you can't achieve more money here.
You could ask for the written statement of reasons, but this may not add anything to what you already know, especially if the tribunal didn't consider further points once over 12 had been scored.
In my view the decision notice is the most important thing here. On any subsequent review always send in a copy of the tribunal decision. Also if you have a copy of the past claim or review form you can refer to this and say eg 2022 review form I said that I needed assistance to cook, this was not awarded by the tribunal but as 15 pts were reached, the tribunal did not need to discuss this.
(I don't think that tribunals necessarily start at descriptor 1 and work through the list. For example, if someone had extremely bad PTSD with serious behavioural issues, it might be obvious they score 8 points under 'engaging with others' and need physical help to manage toilet needs, due to problems with catheters, there's no need to decide whether he will need assistance to cook a meal due to poor memory etc. )
You can appeal just the length of an award. Again this requires a material error of law Award lengths tend to be guidelines rather than being fixed in law. It will be hard to show that a tribunal made an error of law when they have a discretion.
By all means ask for The WSOR but it probably won't provide any information that is useful. Also be mindful that if the tribunal actually decided not to award points, as opposed to not needing to discuss, then if you send that into DWP it is likely that DWP will follow the tribunal in not awarding the same points!
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Aaron
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4 days 16 hours ago #305074 by Aaron
Replied by Aaron on topic Successful PIP Tribunal - What Next?
That's really helpful insight.
Yes was awarded enhanced rate with 0 mobility, I had argued unable to follow a familiar route without support but the daily living was the main goal.
Actually attending the tribunal was the easiest step in the entire process and was basically what's the original assessment should of been.
I even managed to tactfully get a few jabs in at the DWP with my favourite being at the end when asked if I had anything else to add I said:
"the most frustrating part of the process to date was discovering that the HP has decided because I have been in full time employment for a number of years I can do all the daily living tasks.
My understanding was PIP was a non-means tested benefit and as such using my employment as the predominant reason to decide eligibility without even asking what support I have at work feels utterly non-sensical."
The DWP representative was asked the same but they meekly replied no and that was about the entirety of their contribution
Yes was awarded enhanced rate with 0 mobility, I had argued unable to follow a familiar route without support but the daily living was the main goal.
Actually attending the tribunal was the easiest step in the entire process and was basically what's the original assessment should of been.
I even managed to tactfully get a few jabs in at the DWP with my favourite being at the end when asked if I had anything else to add I said:
"the most frustrating part of the process to date was discovering that the HP has decided because I have been in full time employment for a number of years I can do all the daily living tasks.
My understanding was PIP was a non-means tested benefit and as such using my employment as the predominant reason to decide eligibility without even asking what support I have at work feels utterly non-sensical."
The DWP representative was asked the same but they meekly replied no and that was about the entirety of their contribution
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- LL26
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4 days 10 hours ago #305105 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Successful PIP Tribunal - What Next?
Hi Aaron,
There was a recent case where a lady had Chronic fatigue but did work part time. She was utterly exhausted when she got home and argued successfully that she could do daily living tasks eg prepare and cook food. This confirms the 'principle of normality" and that PIP claimants should be allowed to do normal stuff.
I agree that it is very frustrating that the assessments are very poor and a waste of time!
Of course if you want to consider an appeal for mobility you could ask for the wsor anyway. See if thee is an error of law (if you repost with more specific details from the wsor we may be able to help.)
Look out for discrepancies in evidence and facts found by tribunal have the tribunal ignored evidence, simple words like 'not' are often overlooked or wrong included.
Have the right legal tests been applied?
Correct descriptor wording?
Regulations 4(2A) ( 4 reliability criteria - safety reasonable time etc)
Reg 7 - majority of days snd correct aggregation if more than one descriptor in the set applies
Fair hearing - were you allowed to put your case properly, allowed a break, no impatience from the tribunal panel etc.
See what you think.
LL26
There was a recent case where a lady had Chronic fatigue but did work part time. She was utterly exhausted when she got home and argued successfully that she could do daily living tasks eg prepare and cook food. This confirms the 'principle of normality" and that PIP claimants should be allowed to do normal stuff.
I agree that it is very frustrating that the assessments are very poor and a waste of time!
Of course if you want to consider an appeal for mobility you could ask for the wsor anyway. See if thee is an error of law (if you repost with more specific details from the wsor we may be able to help.)
Look out for discrepancies in evidence and facts found by tribunal have the tribunal ignored evidence, simple words like 'not' are often overlooked or wrong included.
Have the right legal tests been applied?
Correct descriptor wording?
Regulations 4(2A) ( 4 reliability criteria - safety reasonable time etc)
Reg 7 - majority of days snd correct aggregation if more than one descriptor in the set applies
Fair hearing - were you allowed to put your case properly, allowed a break, no impatience from the tribunal panel etc.
See what you think.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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