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PIP tribunal bundle
- Lorraine
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7 hours 6 minutes ago #314009 by Lorraine
PIP tribunal bundle was created by Lorraine
Hi,
Tribunal
Trying to assist my brother with his PIP tribunal, his bundle arrived today.
Please can you give us advice on how to go through it methodically and point out there errors, is there a good formula anyone has used?
I understand we need to cross reference everything throughout the whole bundle, but not sure the best way.
I thought maybe read through and concentrate on each descriptor separately. So for instance, preparing food - go through everything and put a yellow post it note on it and then move on to the next descriptor and use a pink post it note and so on.
Then read check each set of coloured post it notes to see where there are any errors, contradictions etc for each descriptor and point them out and also state something like “Page ? states X. This is inaccurate because Y. The evidence at page ? and my original MR submission explain that... Therefore descriptor should apply!"
Thank you
Tribunal
Trying to assist my brother with his PIP tribunal, his bundle arrived today.
Please can you give us advice on how to go through it methodically and point out there errors, is there a good formula anyone has used?
I understand we need to cross reference everything throughout the whole bundle, but not sure the best way.
I thought maybe read through and concentrate on each descriptor separately. So for instance, preparing food - go through everything and put a yellow post it note on it and then move on to the next descriptor and use a pink post it note and so on.
Then read check each set of coloured post it notes to see where there are any errors, contradictions etc for each descriptor and point them out and also state something like “Page ? states X. This is inaccurate because Y. The evidence at page ? and my original MR submission explain that... Therefore descriptor should apply!"
Thank you
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- LL26
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2 hours 11 minutes ago #314015 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP tribunal bundle
Hi Lorraine,
You are definitely in the right lines!
Firstly, do you have a recording of the assessment or perhaps notes made at the time or very soon there after?
If you do, then compare what's said in the assessment to what has been recorded. Even if you haven't got notes or a recording there may be some obvious errors. (In the latter example it is slightly more difficult to prove as you have no independent or contemporaneous evidence, but this isn't a big problem.)
Here's how I look at the bundle - start with the assessment.
The assessment report usually starts with some background info and general questions about health and activity in general. Next there are specific comments about descriptor activities. (What the claimant says they can't do.) Then there are the pages for each descriptor with spaces for a tick and a box to say why the assessor agrees or disagrees with claimant. Points are then indicated in the tick box.
Common problems.
•Claimant doesn't actually say what is alleged
•Claimant's answers are not fully recorded
•Claimant's comments are correctly recorded but either assessor doesn't believe what's said, or assessor thinks that it doesn't amount to sufficient disability
• There may be series of stock excuses. - not on medication
- can drive so can prepare veg
- hasn't seen doctor for 2 years
- works so should be able to do X
•Sometimes there are simply no questions asked and or bullying questioning so you simply agree with the assessor.
All of these may be present in someway. Go through the report in the bundle. Post it notes or pencil notes or separate page whatever is easier - note discrepancies.
Eg I didn't say that.
Sometimes a 'not' is missing.
Compare and contrast with what you did say, or if you felt there was bullying, what you should have sent, or compare with your claim form, your own medical reports etc
I suspect that there will normally be one or two areas that describe the major flaws in the report. Can you formulate up 4 or 5 bullet points that sum up the flaws. Give an example of each? Don't nit pick everything as then whatever crucial arguments you might make will be lost in a torrent of words!
Have a look at the decision maker - does he simply endorse the (poor) assessment without any explanation? Is there any other reason - consider this too.
Once you have all your bullet points etc then you could write a full argument. You can start with general background about health, diagnosis, surgery, treatments, deterioration etc etc.
Next is the bullet points and examples.You can also include eg if relevant, that there is very poor grammar and spelling which shows a lack of attention to detail which could explain why answers were misheard or misrecorded. (If you have a recording it will be very strong evidence that the assessor did not write down the answers correctly, but there is no way you can prove he is lying!)
You can explain that the assessor ignored vital evidence. (Check on the front page of the assessment what evidence was considered. Also do the same in the decision pages. Whilst a decision maker doesn't have to specifically list and counter each document you send in, you can easily argue that the lack of any reference shows document/s haven't been considered. This argument has some weight.
Then you can go through each descriptor. Repeat what you said in claim form and do a more focused critique of the assessment and it decision. Explain the points you should have got and give examples.
I hope this helps.
Ll26
You are definitely in the right lines!
Firstly, do you have a recording of the assessment or perhaps notes made at the time or very soon there after?
If you do, then compare what's said in the assessment to what has been recorded. Even if you haven't got notes or a recording there may be some obvious errors. (In the latter example it is slightly more difficult to prove as you have no independent or contemporaneous evidence, but this isn't a big problem.)
Here's how I look at the bundle - start with the assessment.
The assessment report usually starts with some background info and general questions about health and activity in general. Next there are specific comments about descriptor activities. (What the claimant says they can't do.) Then there are the pages for each descriptor with spaces for a tick and a box to say why the assessor agrees or disagrees with claimant. Points are then indicated in the tick box.
Common problems.
•Claimant doesn't actually say what is alleged
•Claimant's answers are not fully recorded
•Claimant's comments are correctly recorded but either assessor doesn't believe what's said, or assessor thinks that it doesn't amount to sufficient disability
• There may be series of stock excuses. - not on medication
- can drive so can prepare veg
- hasn't seen doctor for 2 years
- works so should be able to do X
•Sometimes there are simply no questions asked and or bullying questioning so you simply agree with the assessor.
All of these may be present in someway. Go through the report in the bundle. Post it notes or pencil notes or separate page whatever is easier - note discrepancies.
Eg I didn't say that.
Sometimes a 'not' is missing.
Compare and contrast with what you did say, or if you felt there was bullying, what you should have sent, or compare with your claim form, your own medical reports etc
I suspect that there will normally be one or two areas that describe the major flaws in the report. Can you formulate up 4 or 5 bullet points that sum up the flaws. Give an example of each? Don't nit pick everything as then whatever crucial arguments you might make will be lost in a torrent of words!
Have a look at the decision maker - does he simply endorse the (poor) assessment without any explanation? Is there any other reason - consider this too.
Once you have all your bullet points etc then you could write a full argument. You can start with general background about health, diagnosis, surgery, treatments, deterioration etc etc.
Next is the bullet points and examples.You can also include eg if relevant, that there is very poor grammar and spelling which shows a lack of attention to detail which could explain why answers were misheard or misrecorded. (If you have a recording it will be very strong evidence that the assessor did not write down the answers correctly, but there is no way you can prove he is lying!)
You can explain that the assessor ignored vital evidence. (Check on the front page of the assessment what evidence was considered. Also do the same in the decision pages. Whilst a decision maker doesn't have to specifically list and counter each document you send in, you can easily argue that the lack of any reference shows document/s haven't been considered. This argument has some weight.
Then you can go through each descriptor. Repeat what you said in claim form and do a more focused critique of the assessment and it decision. Explain the points you should have got and give examples.
I hope this helps.
Ll26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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