Continence/Stoma

beanio wrote:

I made the big mistake of not sending any supporting evidence in with my ESA50, so am now trying to get it all together ready for the appeal i've applied for.

You are not obliged to provide any supporting evidence. As you were being migrated from IB to ESA, the onus of the burden of proof rests with the DWP to show that you were disentitled to ESA, and not for you as a claimant to show that you were entitled to the allowance.

With the benefit of hindsight, when you completed the ESA50 you should have stressed to the DWP that in order for a valid assessment to be made, a "qualified" healthcare professional should have contacted your GP and/or consultant(s). If Atos had failed to comply with your request, you could have argued on appeal that when the adverse decision was made on your ESA entitlement, the ESA decision maker failed to discharge the requisite burden of proof when deciding not to award you ESA. This would have given you the basis of an argument that the DWP/Atos failed to undertake due process in the course of the WCA.

This is all academic in your case however as the afore-mentioned situation did not happen, but it is not too late to ask the DWP by way of a reconsideration to enquire why they did not find it necessary to elicit further medical evidence from your own healthcare professionals, if indeed they did not do so? Alternatively, you may prefer just to concentrate in obtaining (medical) evidence to refute the misguided assertion that in the words of the ESA decision maker "You do not need to change your clothes because of difficulty controlling your bladder or bowels or using a stoma" despite the fact it is not your responsibility to do so for the purpose of the transfer from IB to ESA?

Hi Jill,

I too have a stoma,illeostomy, and recently filled in my ESA form, been on IB for many years, sent my form in for 11th July, and have heard nothing yet, I checked with my GP last week and so far he had not been contacted for any info regarding my conditions, I am also a total parenteral nutrition patient, I am hoping to be put in the support group. My heart goes out to you regards your stoma, mine has leaked since day one, and I use a convex bag, yesterday was really bad, changed my bag 3 times and clothes due to leaking. Will let you know how I get on when I hear about my ESA, please keep in touch, and I wish you lots of luck with your ESA.

Hi Jill

I also suffer with leaking and faecal incontinance at times due to severe crohn's disease. I had my medical with atos and only scored 9 points and that was because i have a hand injury following a break to my arm. I appealed and the week before my tribunal i had a call to say that they had reconsidered my claim and was being placed into the support group purely on the fact that i have faecal incontinance at least once a week. I do have other serious medical problems but it seems these were not needed as it was enough with the incontinance to get me into the support group.

I have always found it embarrassing talking about my problems, but unfortunately with atos you do need to go into graphic detail lol!!! Atos dr did state that there was no evidence of incontinance so dismissed it. I really understand where you are coming from and if i can be of any further help please ask.

Take care
Big hug
Mm xx

Hi Jill,

I personally would highlight the fact that you meet the 'weekly leaking device' support criteria and that Atos/decision-maker overlooked this. I would hope/push for an early reconsideration, though Milly Moo unfortunately had to wait until her case was about to be heard.

Best wishes

CrazyDiamond ... thanks for the clarification of the legislation.
Its certainly empowering to have this knowledge and hopefully someone else reading it can benefit from what you've said at an earlier stage of the process. Over the weekend I was at the stage of just giving up with any claim. I'm extremely fortunate that my husband has a good salary .... from what I understand i'd lose all benefits after a year in WRAG anyway once the means testing kicks in.
I've worked and paid NI/Tax for 30 years and if I did drop my claim and quietly go away then i'm doing just what it appears ATOS/DWP are hoping for and they would see it as validation of their ill-informed judgements about me. I'd be shown as part of their success statistics when they're attempting to justify their existence!

To Harley and MillyMoo, a huge hug of appreciation for sharing your experiences and for the support. MillyMoo ... so good to hear that they eventually saw sense and put you in the support group. Sometimes despite the most understanding family and friends, its easy to feel isolated when it comes to talking about bums 'n bowels. Only someone who has to deal with the indignity and embarrassment attached to incontinence, in any form, can really understand how difficult it can be to give a true picture of how it affects our lives. I know that I use humour and a somewhat OCD approach to my outward appearance in an attempt to face the world. I did wonder if that went against me at the WCA, maybe I should have gone in with unwashed hair, no make-up and looking a tad disheveled ... but then I would have felt even more vulnerable. Thing is, 75% of the time that is how I look and feel

Good luck to you both, I look forward to hearing that we (and everyone else) get the benefits we're entitled to.

Thanks Catherine... i'm certainly feeling confident about showing them that I fit the criteria .... I'm also determined to prove that my congenital spinal problems alone should have been given 30 points!!

thanks to all of you for the support.
Jill

Sorry but more questions from me

I've followed the advice and guides from the site and sent of the GL24 last week, followed up on Monday by sending more documentation/evidence and supporting letter from GP.... I will also be sending letters from consultants and stoma nurse as soon as I get them. btw none of my doctors have been contacted by ATOS/DWP despite the box being ticked on my explanation ... I phoned DWP and asked for the name of whoever it was they say they've got evidence from ... guess what, I was told the didn't have the name ... I have now written to ask again for the name as I can't see that they have one.

Despite asking for confirmation in writing that they'd received the GL24 i'd not heard anything so I rang today ... apparently its gone, along with the documents I sent Mon, to the DM for a reconsideration.

I might be a bit ahead of myself but i've a couple of questions please .... if I get a reconsideration and am put into the support group based on the stoma leakage issue (which is being assertively backed up by my GP/Stoma Nurse/Consultant) what happens to the ATOS report?

If you ignore my stoma/abdominal problems then based on my spinal issues alone I should have been put into WRAG and I would have been appealing against 0 points on those grounds alone.

Whilst if i'm put into the support group I guess the points score won't matter for ESA but what is concerning me is that if the ATOS reports is left as it is then will it affect my indefinite award of HRM? Will the reconsideration also cover the points I should have got for walking etc? I've heard that the DLA department is notified of the result of the ESA /ATOS report and i'm worried that they'll use it as a basis to remove my HRM.


Thanks again
Jill