thebraille test for the new guidance on ESA

Martin, why do you think that this guidance from the DWP does not mean that blind people will now be put in the support group? It looks genuine and appears to have been unearthed by the RNIB. As a representative of the RNIB are you saying this is not true. I do not feel that it would remain posted up if the mods did not have confidence that it was genuine as it would be giving false hope. It seems very clear to me that they are revisiting the descriptor.
Does anyone know when the new guidance that is mentioned that will include this update will be officially published?

Hi! Ash.

I dont think Martin represents the RNIB.(RNIB sometimes read the posts as when i phoned them the guy had just read mine) RNIB comment says that they think dual sensory impairment looks likely for qualifying for support group,however on the update it says that the inability to read 16 point print or simple message in braille is likely to qualify you for support status.
The word likely is used so not a definate answer?
As i am already in WRAG and blind MODS have told me that ESA will be paid at this rate while appealing and although there is a small risk of removal from ESA altogether.
Its a risk i'll take.

Sorry I mixed the post from Martin up with the RNIB. Match seller why do you think te RNIB are being so negative in their post. The update was said to come from the RNIB is it a case of one dept not knowing what the other is doing? To be honest I have not found the RNIB to be the best source of information on this nor do I feel they have advocated enough for blind people

Hi
all posts on the forum from 'RNIB' are from me. I'm Alban Hawksworth and I work in RNIB's legal rights service in Judd St, London.
- info about us here www.rnib.org.uk/livingwithsightloss/your...ges/your_rights.aspx
we deal with benefits casework, community care challenges and Equality Act problems.

I don't mean to be 'negative' about the new guidance or anyone's chance of getting into the support group, just trying to clearly set out what I understand the ESA and WCA regulations to mean. Unfortunately 'guidance' is just that -- advice to staff on what DWP or ATOS think the rules mean. So a U-turn on the guidance doesn't mean that the rules are likely to change, just that there's a new interpretation.

So the guidance is about activity 7 'understanding communication' in the limited capability for work (LCW) test. Previous guidance seemed to be factually wrong in that it implied that a person had to have both sight loss and hearing loss to get any points. The wording of the activity in the LCW is clearly about understanding both 'verbal and non-verbal communication'.

This is what the activity has said ever since it was introduced around March 2011, and it has not changed.

The test for bering put in the support group is the limited capability for work-related activity test (LCWRA) and activity 7 of LCWRA is phrased differently to LCW.

The LCWRA says 'understanding communication by hearing, lip reading, reading 16 point print or using any aid if reasonably used' -- my interpretation of this (and it is only my interpretation) is that this wording means that if you can achieve any one of the means of communication you do not meet the test to go into the support group.

Ultimately it is judges in appeals tribunal who will decide what the rules mean, and they will refer directly to the wording in legislation. The guidance is just a possible interpretation that the tribunals may or may not approve of ....

So far at RNIB we have a number of cases awaiting first tier tribunal dates. Lets see what tribunals make of DWP U-turn.

On another matter, we are unhappy about the guidance's advice about taking braille into account and are asking DWP / ATOS to reconsider this.

Hi Alban
Thanks for explaining your view on this. I look forward to hearing the outcomes of the first teir tribunals. Do you have an approx date when some of these decisions will come through . I understand the difference between the wording of the two tests. The 'guidance' from DWP seems to be about the criteria for the LCW activity but it clearly states that loss of one sense would be enough for entry to the support group. Why do you think this is. I note that this guidance is dated 23.11.11 do you know of anyone who has been assessed since then?
In my communications with the RNIB I have felt very negative as as far as I was told there was no push from them to have registered blind people in support group. I am sure that there is much going on behind the scenes that I am not aware of but I am not inspired by confidence when I speak to someone on the phone about what is happening. It is not of course aimed at you personally not having spoken to you before.
Good luck match seller with your appeal keep us informed

Hi! Ash.
I had a good idea that it was Alban as i have spoken to him before but didn't know if nameing him on forum was OK; this is his area of expertise.
However i have gone over the update and advice on here and i think like you,that only one sensory impairment is required to qualify. So are we missing somthing! maybe; because it says likely for support group so its down to interpretation by the DM .
If you feel your not going to lose entitlement then in my opinion its worth a go.
Thanks for the thumbs up.
Matchseller,