ANKYLOSING SPONYLITIS RECONSIDERATION

Hi all,

I'm new to D&W. Stressed beyond belief . My dad suffers with Ankylosing Spondylitis. This is a chronic condition whereby (in my dad's case) his spine literally crumbles. For the passed few months I've been acting as his representative, as the stresses and strains of the threat of losing benefit, appealing etc are simply too much for him.

I'll try to make this history brief. Mid 2012 my had an assessment and the DWP decided that my dad should be placed into the WRAG after claiming Incapacity Benefit for a few years. Is condition is chronic and debilitating, and in my opinion the thought of him not being placed in the Support Group is just crazy. He is completely unfit for work and would be unemployable (as doctors letters quote), but this appears to mean nothing.

He did appeal against the decision made, but the stress was too much for him. He was unable to open any letters from the DWP, instead hid them away scared to look at them. In the early stages of the appeal process his Benefits Office contacted him by phone and told him that if he stayed in the WRAG he would not have to attend work related meetings. My dad, stressed out by the whole process, wracked with pain, not thinking straight, three years off retirement, completely vulnerable, went on to stop his appeal as a result This all happened without us knowing, as he simply cannot talk about the subject without crying. To him, he was unfit for work and wanted the stress to stop, so not attending work related meetings made sense - after all, he was unfit for work. What he wasn't told over the phone then was that if he stayed in the WRAG his benefit would effectively stop after a years period. Advising he could stay in this group without having to attend work related meetings was a little crafty in my opinion - just a little underhanded - designed to trick the sick and vulnerable Thinking about it makes me feel ill

First of all we didn't even know this had happened. Later we found more letters, mostly unopened. Ever since then, March/April this year I've been constantly writing letters. I contacted the HM Courts straight the way to attempt to reopen the appeal even though 30 days had way passed. On reading my explanation on what had been happening they agreed to reopen the appeal - thankfully.

In the meantime, another assessment request came through. This time, I helped complete the questionnaire. My dad is not very good with words, has little confidence, and is a very proud man, so would not fill in the claim form accurately as ticking certain boxes would make him look weak. The results of this new assessment came through... declined again. His benefit would then effectively stop dead in 6 months time (mid Nov 13). During the assessment ATOS staff were very rude, seemingly unsympathetic, and borderline sarcastic at times. Each time my mum or dad attempted to speak or offer information they were told to wait, that they could speak later, after the assessor had finished writing what she was writing - but later never came. Subsequently lots of relevant information was not recorded. I wanted my parents to complain but again due to their age they couldn't do it. They were simply to tired and didn't have the confidence to do so.

I contacted our MP who forwarded our information onto the DWP but little difference was made. We were contacted by a the benefits complaints team who didn't comment once on the complaint section of the letter we'd sent to the MP. All they offered was that if we had further information it could be used in a reconsideration.

*On a separate note. During one of my conversations with the complaints team, a particular staff member said a few things to me that I felt were completely unprofessional and had no place within our conversation. I may talk about this in a later post. At the time, I chose not to make a formal complaint, as it seemed pointless, plus I was concerned that if the system was corrupt, my dad's reconsideration would be dismissed out of hand my disgruntled staff members. I informed my MP of exactly what was said (for records purposes) but asked that this complaint not be forwarded.

With regards to the reconsideration on my dad's July assessment decision... declined. We have supplied two doctors letters, a hospital consultant's letter, even a support letter from NASS (The National Ankylosing Spondylitis Society), but all have made no difference. Some of the responses that have come back from the decision maker regarding these pieces of evidence are simply baffling. It appears that it doesn't matter what is said within any support letters, it will all be discarded. Some explanations don't appear to make sense at all, others appear to twist words to suit their own cause. I'll likely mention these later too within my post. All of which of course brings the same result: reconsideration declined.

My mum and dad are likely to attend another doctor's appointment tomorrow. They will ask whether he can help in any other way, maybe supply additional evidence as the complaints team have advised that new evidence if supplied soon will still be taken into account as reconsideration is still open.

But will it? What's the point? We've had some brilliant support and it's all cast aside as irrelevant.

My dad's benefits will stop in a week or so. Whenever we talk about the subject with my dad, even if the DWP are simply mentioned in passing, he simply breaks down. Depression for my dad (as well as others) is also another symptom of Ankylosing Spondylitis. This is further exaggerated by the stresses of this appeal and loosing all income. My dad's state of mind and comments made of a self destructive nature have all been forwarded towards the consideration. But still, nothing.

We live in hope that our appeal will be heard soon (we've been waiting approx 7 months now). I'll be attending too as my dad will be unable to make a difference or know what to say. We only hope that the HM Courts see sense, and that justice is done., placing my dad in the rightful Support Group.

If anyone has any words of encouragement or advise, please get in touch.

Thanks for listening.

Bluebear wrote: Hi all,

I'm new to D&W. Stressed beyond belief . My dad suffers with Ankylosing Spondylitis. This is a chronic condition whereby (in my dad's case) his spine literally crumbles. For the passed few months I've been acting as his representative, as the stresses and strains of the threat of losing benefit, appealing etc are simply too much for him.

I'll try to make this history brief. Mid 2012 my had an assessment and the DWP decided that my dad should be placed into the WRAG after claiming Incapacity Benefit for a few years. Is condition is chronic and debilitating, and in my opinion the thought of him not being placed in the Support Group is just crazy. He is completely unfit for work and would be unemployable (as doctors letters quote), but this appears to mean nothing.

He did appeal against the decision made, but the stress was too much for him. He was unable to open any letters from the DWP, instead hid them away scared to look at them. In the early stages of the appeal process his Benefits Office contacted him by phone and told him that if he stayed in the WRAG he would not have to attend work related meetings. My dad, stressed out by the whole process, wracked with pain, not thinking straight, three years off retirement, completely vulnerable, went on to stop his appeal as a result This all happened without us knowing, as he simply cannot talk about the subject without crying. To him, he was unfit for work and wanted the stress to stop, so not attending work related meetings made sense - after all, he was unfit for work. What he wasn't told over the phone then was that if he stayed in the WRAG his benefit would effectively stop after a years period. Advising he could stay in this group without having to attend work related meetings was a little crafty in my opinion - just a little underhanded - designed to trick the sick and vulnerable Thinking about it makes me feel ill

First of all we didn't even know this had happened. Later we found more letters, mostly unopened. Ever since then, March/April this year I've been constantly writing letters. I contacted the HM Courts straight the way to attempt to reopen the appeal even though 30 days had way passed. On reading my explanation on what had been happening they agreed to reopen the appeal - thankfully.

In the meantime, another assessment request came through. This time, I helped complete the questionnaire. My dad is not very good with words, has little confidence, and is a very proud man, so would not fill in the claim form accurately as ticking certain boxes would make him look weak. The results of this new assessment came through... declined again. His benefit would then effectively stop dead in 6 months time (mid Nov 13). During the assessment ATOS staff were very rude, seemingly unsympathetic, and borderline sarcastic at times. Each time my mum or dad attempted to speak or offer information they were told to wait, that they could speak later, after the assessor had finished writing what she was writing - but later never came. Subsequently lots of relevant information was not recorded. I wanted my parents to complain but again due to their age they couldn't do it. They were simply to tired and didn't have the confidence to do so.

I contacted our MP who forwarded our information onto the DWP but little difference was made. We were contacted by a the benefits complaints team who didn't comment once on the complaint section of the letter we'd sent to the MP. All they offered was that if we had further information it could be used in a reconsideration.

*On a separate note. During one of my conversations with the complaints team, a particular staff member said a few things to me that I felt were completely unprofessional and had no place within our conversation. I may talk about this in a later post. At the time, I chose not to make a formal complaint, as it seemed pointless, plus I was concerned that if the system was corrupt, my dad's reconsideration would be dismissed out of hand my disgruntled staff members. I informed my MP of exactly what was said (for records purposes) but asked that this complaint not be forwarded.

With regards to the reconsideration on my dad's July assessment decision... declined. We have supplied two doctors letters, a hospital consultant's letter, even a support letter from NASS (The National Ankylosing Spondylitis Society), but all have made no difference. Some of the responses that have come back from the decision maker regarding these pieces of evidence are simply baffling. It appears that it doesn't matter what is said within any support letters, it will all be discarded. Some explanations don't appear to make sense at all, others appear to twist words to suit their own cause. I'll likely mention these later too within my post. All of which of course brings the same result: reconsideration declined.

My mum and dad are likely to attend another doctor's appointment tomorrow. They will ask whether he can help in any other way, maybe supply additional evidence as the complaints team have advised that new evidence if supplied soon will still be taken into account as reconsideration is still open.

But will it? What's the point? We've had some brilliant support and it's all cast aside as irrelevant.

My dad's benefits will stop in a week or so. Whenever we talk about the subject with my dad, even if the DWP are simply mentioned in passing, he simply breaks down. Depression for my dad (as well as others) is also another symptom of Ankylosing Spondylitis. This is further exaggerated by the stresses of this appeal and loosing all income. My dad's state of mind and comments made of a self destructive nature have all been forwarded towards the consideration. But still, nothing.

We live in hope that our appeal will be heard soon (we've been waiting approx 7 months now). I'll be attending too as my dad will be unable to make a difference or know what to say. We only hope that the HM Courts see sense, and that justice is done., placing my dad in the rightful Support Group.

If anyone has any words of encouragement or advise, please get in touch.

Thanks for listening.

Hi Bb,

Welcome to Benefits and Work

Can you please try and keep any future posts to a shorter format.

Being placed into The WRAG does in fact mean that your father is unfit for work, in that he has Limited Capability for Work. (LCW) To gain access to The SG it is a strict qualifying criteria in that he must fulfill at least one of The SG qualifying descriptors, and/or qualify under ESA Reg 35. (2) (a) & (b) :

SG (LCWRA)Schedule 3 Descriptors

and/or : ESA Reg 35 for entry to The SG (LCWRA)

Qualifying for the Support Group

To qualify for The SG, not ony must he be assessed as LCW, he must also be assessed as having Limited Capability for Work Related Activity. (LCWRA)

So disregarding the medical conditions, it is more important to show that the resulting limitations qualify him under ay least one of the descriptors.

If you only have the initial appeal ongoing, and you still think that he should be in The SG after the more recent assessment, you will also have to appeal that decision as well, as any decision made by the tribunal regarding the first WRAG award would only run up to the date of the most recent WRAG decision.

What is the date of the most recent WRAG decision, as if it is after 28/10/13, it may have to undergo a Mandatory Reconsideration, before it is allowed to go to appeal ?

bro58

Hi Bb,

Once your father has exhausted his 365 days entitlement to CB ESA :

12 Month Limit for ESA(CB)

He should be financially assessed using an ESA 3 Form, to see whether he can pass the means test for entitlement to Income Related (IR) ESA with respect to household income, capital, assets and savings, see :

24 hour work rule for ESA(IR)

Asset rule for ESA(IR)

Here is a sample of an ESA 3 form to give you some idea of the questions. :

Sample ESA 3 Form

This is not the most current version, and you would have to request one from the Benefits Office dealing with Dad's ESA.

bro58

As the forum is now closing for the night, you may wish to peruse the following :

Appeals FAQ’s

If the recent WRAG decision notice letter offers you the right to appeal without having to undergo a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR)

Or :

Mandatory Reconsiderations FAQ's


If the recent WRAG decision notice letter states that you must first undergo an MR.

See also :

ESA FAQ’s

&

ESA Claims Guides

You might want to Bookmark/Favourite this page in your browser, you can then return to it easily and pose any queries that you may have by replying to the topic.

bro58

My dad can be constantly in pain and discomfort when walking. During his last trip to his consultant, for example, he had to continually stop and rest due to pain walking through the hospital. When walking he can be in constant distress, and when at his worst he would be unable to walk even a few metres (let alone 50) without having to stop to try and gain some form of composure.

So with regards to this descriptor...
(i) You cannot walk more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
(ii) You cannot repeatedly walk 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.

...we feel very strongly that this would apply to my dad. It definitely would. The problem is getting evidence of this. How are you meant to get this 'specific' evidence without a doctor or consultant writing it. From support letters that have been sent in the past for his reconsideration it would appear that because the above isn't listed 'word for word', supplied evidence appears to count for nothing

Bluebear wrote: My dad can be constantly in pain and discomfort when walking. During his last trip to his consultant, for example, he had to continually stop and rest due to pain walking through the hospital. When walking he can be in constant distress, and when at his worst he would be unable to walk even a few metres (let alone 50) without having to stop to try and gain some form of composure.

So with regards to this descriptor...
(i) You cannot walk more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
(ii) You cannot repeatedly walk 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.

...we feel very strongly that this would apply to my dad. It definitely would. The problem is getting evidence of this. How are you meant to get this 'specific' evidence without a doctor or consultant writing it. From support letters that have been sent in the past for his reconsideration it would appear that because the above isn't listed 'word for word', supplied evidence appears to count for nothing

Hi Bb,

If your Dad is trying to qualify for The SG on Activity 1 "Mobilising" Moving Around,

"So with regards to this descriptor...
(i) You cannot walk more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
(ii) You cannot repeatedly walk 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion."

The above may be your problem !!.

For decisions made after April 2011, and before 28/01/13, the SG Mobilising Descriptor was as follows :

"1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.

Cannot either:

(a) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;

or

(b)repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion."

From :

”Old” 2011 ESA SG (LCWRA) Schedule 3 Descriptors

For decisions made after 28/01/13 the wording altered slightly, to:

"1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid is normally or could reasonably be worn or used.

1 Cannot either:

(a) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;

or

(b) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion."

From :

SG (LCWRA)Schedule 3 Descriptors

With both versions of the "Mobilising" descriptor, not only are you assessed if you can "walk" the requisite 50 metres with the aid of a walking stick or other such aid, you are also assessed on whether you can self propel a manual wheelchair the requisite 50 metres, unaided.

So you would have to show that Dad also had sitting limitations, or limitations with his arms/upper body or suffers breathlessness respiratory/cardiac problems, that also prevented him from self propelling a manual wheelchair.

This assessment is carried out even if Dad has never owned or used a manual wheelchair.

If you read through our ESA Guides, on this page, it explains the "virtual wheelchair" scenario.

ESA Claims Guides

There is also some case law on it, here :

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=top...id=10&id=87202#87202

You should remember here, that to be classed as being able to "Mobilise" the 50 metres, you must be able to do so without suffering significant pain, discomfort or breathlessness.

You must also be able to carry out any of the activities repeatedly, reliably and safely for the majority of the time. (>50%) of the time)

If you can't gain written support from your G.P./Consultant with respect to the qualifying descriptors, you should draw reference to the medical evidence that you do have, then point out the limitations suffered as a result of the medical conditions, then tie them in with the appropriate Descriptors/Activities.

bro58