PIP totally CFS/ME friendly compared to ESA/DLA!!?

Hi,

I've started reading the PIP guide as my claim form has finally arrived and I've been struck by the line ‘If a descriptor applies at any point during a 24 hour period, it is considered to apply for the entire day, whereas in DLA it would have to apply for ‘the majority of the day’ in order to apply.’

As I suffer from CFS/ME, I was expecting to have to fight to get the Mobility part, forgetting about the rest, but the above sentence changes everything. My one to two hour period that I have to spend in bed every morning doing nothing (or else increase my disability throughout the day, among other things) goes from meaning little to making me satisfy the strongest descriptor for almost every question in the questionnaire! Finally a benefit claim system that effortlessly identifies something like my true level of disability.

This seems too good to be true, but I don't see how the rules can be argued with. Has anyone else found the new rules so hugely beneficial?

Btw I asked for advice on my ESA application and assessment a few months back. I got a letter cancelling my assessment: on the day of my assessment! So I'm now happily on ESA and looking to get some more justice!

Thanks,

Holes.

Yes, and the guide gives an example:

So, for example, on most days you may be unable to put a shirt or a jumper on first thing in the morning because your arthritis is at its worst, but after an hour or two your symptoms ease and you are able to dress yourself.
If this is the case, the DWP’s view seems to be that you should score 4 points for: 6 e). Needs assistance to be able to dress or undress their upper body.
This should be the case even though for the majority of the day you don’t need assistance to dress or undress.

This makes a world of difference to the descriptors applicable for many people, particularly those like myself with illnesses that vary throughout the day. I wonder if they are assessing people according to this rule (assuming the applicants are mentioning these "worst times of day" in the forms) or if it's up to us to spell it out for them.

Maybe in filling my forms I should make repeated reference to this "24 hour rule", just as I do with the "safely, reliably and repeatedly" rule.

I can only assume that either (i) the assessors are not applying this rule correctly, or (ii) claimants are not providing enough information in the forms, as there are many conditions which will allow picking up a whole bunch of points under this new system, making getting PIP easy for many of us.

Maybe I should try to find the regulations themselves to verify this.

OK. Having had a quick look around, I've found two documents on gov.uk that directly contradict the claims made in the Work And Benefits PIP Guide regarding variablility throughout the day:

page 44 of PIP Assessment Guide

"A DWP guidance document for providers carrying out assessments for
Personal Independence Payment "


www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/upl...assessment-guide.pdf

2.8.9.
The HP must also take into account that most health conditions or
impairments can fluctuate over time. The HP should consider ability
over a 12 month period as this helps to iron out fluctuations and
presents a more coherent picture. For some conditions different time
periods will need to be considered, such as the potential impact of
different times of the day. If a claimant is unable to complete an
activity or needs support to do so at a point in the day when you
would reasonably expect them to complete it, the need should be
treated as existing for the whole of the day, even if it does not exist
at other points in the day.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/upl...essment-criteria.pdf

PIP Assessment Criteria
Details of the Assessment Criteria for PIP and
guidance on how this is applied

Page 6


The timing of the activity should be considered, and whether the claimant can
carry out the activity when they need to do it. For example if taking
medication in the morning (such as painkillers) allows the individual to carry
out activities reliably when they need to throughout the day, although they
would be unable to carry out the activity for part of the day (before they take
the painkillers), the individual can still complete the activity reliably when
required and therefore should receive the appropriate descriptor.

How can I find the source of the quotes in the W&B Guide? While checking to see if it listed its references, I came across this among the "Winners and Losers" section:

Conditions that vary throughout the day
For DLA, in general you need to show that you have problems with an activity for the
majority of the day. With PIP, according to DWP guidance: ‘If a descriptor applies at any
point during a 24 hour period, it is considered to apply for the entire day, whereas in DLA it
would have to apply for ‘the majority of the day’ in order to apply.’. This may mean that someone who has severe difficulties first thing in the morning, for
example, should score points even if they have a lot less problems for all the rest of the day.


!

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Until Steve comments, I am locking this thread until he has the opportunity to respond to your specific points made.

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Hi,

We're happy to look at the guides at any time.

But you do need to bear in mind that at the moment all we have is the legislation and guidance issued by the DWP. The legislation is binding, the guidance issued by the DWP is not. Ultimately it will be up to the courts to decide how the legislation is applied where there are disagreements between claimants and the DWP.

So, it makes sense for claimants to interpret the law as favourably to themselves as possible and, if the DWP does not agree, to consider appealing so that a tribunal can decide.

Having said that, I can't see any major disagreement between our PIP guide and the DWP's guidance.

I would very happily argue on behalf of a client that if they were unable to get dressed for the first hour or two in the morning because of stiffness caused by arthritis then they should score points even though they could dress later in the day.

The effects of medication you normally take absolutely would have to be taken into account. But if, for example, you couldn't take painkillers first thing because they shouldn't be taken on an empty stomach, so you would need to eat first and then wait for them to kick, in then I would still be happy to argue that you should score points if you couldn't dress first thing in the morning.

Steve