Face to Face Assessment - No ESA50

Hi

I was wondering if somebody could clarify a few things for me...

My mum has been in the WRAG for approximately 2 years. She was initially found fit for work then we appealed and she was placed in the WRAG without a hearing.

Her condition is to do with mental illness, anxiety, depression. Her GP has provided letters to say she has been ill in this respect for many years and isn't fit for work. She does not generally leave the house on her own and sometimes is just in no state to attend. As such has really struggled with attending the WRAG appointments due to her illness as her family can support her but we all work full time and cannot get her to these appointments every fortnight.

As a result she has been repeatedly sanctioned for non compliance. Despite phoning and explaining the situation whenever she calls the records don't seem to exist its as if they wipe the system at the end of every day or something!!

Long story short, she has been asked to complete 2 ESA 50 forms over the last 18 months - the last one was Feb 14. We asked in that request that she be reassessed.

Now she has been sent an appointment for an assessment (next week), but I have no idea what information (if any) the assessor will have and trying to get any sense out of the JC+, ATOS or DWP is just hopeless.

Can anybody advise me on what we can do to prepare for this assessment please?

Another element to the story is this, we won an appeal on a sanction but the information they provided is really vague, they just said it was a favourable outcome. After lots and lots of digging she has now been told she won the right to do the work related activity over the phone and that means somebody from ATOS will phone her every Wednesday, so long as she complies to this she wont be sanctioned. This is great and can work for us so long as we can talk her down on the day and make sure she is prepared to take the call.

BUT, the guy she has been dealing with says this will only last for the next 5 weeks because she has been on the programme for 64 weeks?

What does this mean? Does this mean her benefit ends? or is this why she has been asked to attend the assessment?

He also told her that in order for her money to be reinstated she needs to get the JC+ to call somewhere to confirm that the sanctions have been lifted but she has been waiting for back payment for 10 weeks now and her money is still docked. She has been calling the JC+ every day and is getting nowhere because she has to call a call centre who arrange for the JC+ to call her back and they either don't call or when they do call they tell her to call the call centre, we are at our wits end.

Sorry about the essay, any advice most welcome!

Many thanks

Have absolutely no idea re practical advice, but just wanted to send you lots of support through the airways at being so supportive to your mum in what must be a really challenging situation. I really hope you get some great answers here and an outcome that helps you all. Lots of good wishes.

Polly wrote: Hi

I was wondering if somebody could clarify a few things for me...

My mum has been in the WRAG for approximately 2 years. She was initially found fit for work then we appealed and she was placed in the WRAG without a hearing.

Her condition is to do with mental illness, anxiety, depression. Her GP has provided letters to say she has been ill in this respect for many years and isn't fit for work. She does not generally leave the house on her own and sometimes is just in no state to attend. As such has really struggled with attending the WRAG appointments due to her illness as her family can support her but we all work full time and cannot get her to these appointments every fortnight.

As a result she has been repeatedly sanctioned for non compliance. Despite phoning and explaining the situation whenever she calls the records don't seem to exist its as if they wipe the system at the end of every day or something!!

Long story short, she has been asked to complete 2 ESA 50 forms over the last 18 months - the last one was Feb 14. We asked in that request that she be reassessed.

Now she has been sent an appointment for an assessment (next week), but I have no idea what information (if any) the assessor will have and trying to get any sense out of the JC+, ATOS or DWP is just hopeless.

Can anybody advise me on what we can do to prepare for this assessment please?

Another element to the story is this, we won an appeal on a sanction but the information they provided is really vague, they just said it was a favourable outcome. After lots and lots of digging she has now been told she won the right to do the work related activity over the phone and that means somebody from ATOS will phone her every Wednesday, so long as she complies to this she wont be sanctioned. This is great and can work for us so long as we can talk her down on the day and make sure she is prepared to take the call.

BUT, the guy she has been dealing with says this will only last for the next 5 weeks because she has been on the programme for 64 weeks?

What does this mean? Does this mean her benefit ends? or is this why she has been asked to attend the assessment?

He also told her that in order for her money to be reinstated she needs to get the JC+ to call somewhere to confirm that the sanctions have been lifted but she has been waiting for back payment for 10 weeks now and her money is still docked. She has been calling the JC+ every day and is getting nowhere because she has to call a call centre who arrange for the JC+ to call her back and they either don't call or when they do call they tell her to call the call centre, we are at our wits end.

Sorry about the essay, any advice most welcome!

Many thanks

Hi P,

I have just looked at your previous post : Here, and the problems regarding the Sanctions seem to be ongoing.

I will therefore refer you back to Gordon's advice, whilst also trying to help further.

Have you complained to The DWP or contacted your M.P. as advised to by Gordon in his response ?

"Her condition is to do with mental illness, anxiety, depression. Her GP has provided letters to say she has been ill in this respect for many years and isn't fit for work. She does not generally leave the house on her own and sometimes is just in no state to attend. As such has really struggled with attending the WRAG appointments due to her illness as her family can support her but we all work full time and cannot get her to these appointments every fortnight."

Her G.P. providing letters to state that she "isn't fit for work" will not really help with regards to her having to comply with Work Focussed Interviews (WFI's) or any other form of Work Related Activity.(WRA)

As she has been placed into The WRAG, it has been accepted that she has Limited Capability for Work (LCW), i.e. she is unfit for work.

However, as she has not been placed into The Support Group (SG) she has not been assessed as also having Limited Capability for Work Related Activity (LCWRA), i.e. she is not unfit to take part in WRA.

Hence she has to comply with WFI's/WRA under the threat of sanction for not doing so.

Therefore it would help if her G.P. could write a letter of support giving reasons why she was also unfit to take part in WRA rather than simply stating that she was unfit for work.

See : Work Focused Interviews

&

Work Programme

Ideally, the letter should include reasons why she cannot comply with the different types of WRA, including WFI's over the phone, and stipulate any reasons why being compelled to do so may cause a "Substantial Risk" to her health or that of another.

She may then qualify for The SG under ESA Reg 35. (2) (a) & (b) of : ESA Reg 35 for entry to The SG, (LCWRA) if she cannot qualify for The SG under any one of : The Functional SG (LCWRA)Schedule 3 Descriptors.

See also : Qualifying for the Support Group

&

ESA Claims Guides

Even while Mum is still in The WRAG, The DWP/JCP and/or any Works Programme Provider are duty bound to make Reasonable Adjustments for Mum under : "Adjustments for disabled persons." Sections 20-21 Equality Act (EA) 2010 if she fulfils : The Definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010.

They also have a "Duty of Care" to her as at : Section 149 EA2010 "Public sector equality duty."

If she cannot comply with any "Adjusted" WRA such as WFI's over the phone, then the "Adjustments" that may have been made are clearly not "Reasonable" with respect to her limitations/disabilities suffered as a result of her health issues.

i.e. She could be getting "set up to fail" !!

You seem to be getting "nowhere" over the phone so it may be best to create a written paper trail by complaining in writing :

Complaining to The DWP

Sending Documents to the DWP.

If you are to phone up, I would advise that you request (insist politely) an escalation to a Supervisor/Manager which will involve a call back.

You should make a note of the date and time of any calls and the person that you speak to. (They do record calls) and if possible covertly record the conversation yourself.

By the way, ATOS have not been involved in ESA Assessments or Reassessments for a few months, it is now : The Centre for Health and Disability Assessments (CHDA) (Maximus) who took over the ESA WCA Contract from ATOS on 02/03/15.

So it is Maximus that you should contact, not ATOS !!

We have heard from quite a lot of members who have been summoned to an ESA Face to Face (F2F) "medical" with Maximus who have not been given the opportunity to fill in and supply a current ESA50.

See the following B&W News Articles regarding this : Here, Here and Here where one of our members successfully challenged Maximus.

"BUT, the guy she has been dealing with says this will only last for the next 5 weeks because she has been on the programme for 64 weeks?

What does this mean? Does this mean her benefit ends? or is this why she has been asked to attend the assessment?"

I am not aware of any, what would appear to be a 69 weeks limit ?

Even if she was taking part in a Works Programme these last for 104 weeks, and her monies wouldn't stop at the end of the 104 weeks.

If she has been receiving ESA in The WRAG beyond 365 days from the date of the decision, then she must be entitled to payment of Income Related (IR) ESA, as if she had only be entitled to payment of Contribution Based (CB) ESA, and had no IR ESA entitlement, payment would have ceased after 365 days :

12 Month Limit for ESA(CB)

Another issue is that, I really don't know why ATOS would be carrying out weekly WFI's over the phone with your mother, they are not a Works Programme Provider (WPP) they used to provide Medical Services regarding ESA Assessments for the DWP.

If she is being paid IR ESA in The WRAG, payment will continue for as long as she remains in The WRAG (Excluding Sanctions) and beyond if she stays in The WRAG or gains access to The SG.

i.e. She should continue to receive payments at least until any fresh decision is made as a result of the forthcoming reassessment.

It seems that you and Mum have been victims of much misinformation, and they are continuing to get away with it due to what seems to be your limited knowledge of "the system" !

My best advice would be to contact Maximus, and challenge them regarding having no current ESA50 as advised in the three News Articles from the links above.

You can even cite the B&W articles, and ask for an escalation !

You are allowed to rearrange a F2F appointment once, so you could do that to gain more time, but Mum "MUST" attend any rearranged appointment if necessary or face losing all her ESA.

As Mum seems to have Mental Health issues, you could also request a Home Assessment as a "Reasonably Adjustment" if her resulting limitations would preclude her travel to and from an Assessment Centre.

It is highly likely that she would need a letter supporting this from her G.P. which is generally Faxed to Maximus.

In the mean time you could fill in an ESA50 by : Using The PDF Version Of The ESA50 Questionnaire

Whilst referring to the guides on this page 3rd & 4th links down :

ESA Claims Guides

See also :

ESA50 too big for the envelope

&

Sending Documents to the DWP or Maximus

You could obtain an address to post it to whilst in contact with Maximus.

If/when she has her F2F she could also present a copy to the Assessor before the start of the assessment, and also post a copy FAO : The ESA Decision Maker at the address of the Benefits Office/Centre on her most recent ESA letter.

Finally, the following FAQ tells you what to expect at an ESA F2F :

ESA Medical – What to expect

If you seem to be getting "nowhere fast" contact your M.P. and/or a Welfare Rights/Advice agency such as CAB, DIAL, or Age UK, etc, they may be able to help.

Your M.P. may also be able to help in gaining some clarity :

Contacting your MP

Please keep us updated, and you may want to Bookmark/Favourite this page in your Internet Browser so that you can return to it quickly to pose any further queries that you may have.

bro58

Hi

Sorry about the slow response, I just wanted to say thank you for all of your advice.

We attended the assessment and did as advised - completed the ESA 50 and asked them to review beforehand etc.

Obviously we don't know the outcome yet and probably wont for some time given the waiting times reported at the moment but what I will say is that the assessor did seem to have a solid understanding of mental health issues and was a qualified mental health nurse. This gives at least some comfort that it wasn't with a physio who doesn't know the first thing about mental health problems.

In the meantime my mums money seems to have gone back to normal and she received a lump sum back payment from the appeal against the sanctions (it took 3 months!) but still good news.

I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Thanks again.

Just wanted to report that we had to attend an interview at the Job Centre last week and although we haven't received the letters to confirm yet the job centre have advised that she didn't need to attend the appointment as they have been told she has now been placed in the support group following her recent re assessment.

Can't begin to tell you the relief this has brought. Thank you so much for your help, advice and guidance. We wouldn't have known where to start without the invaluable support and information provided via this site.

Good luck everyone xxx