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PIP moving around descriptor
- Bill Hopley
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8 years 7 months ago #141096 by Bill Hopley
PIP moving around descriptor was created by Bill Hopley
I've a question about the PIP descriptors.
My wife has to be assisted to rise from a chair and stand. She is unable to rise from a chair or bed unaided.
Once up she 'can stand upright and then move' - albeit with a walking frame, or holding on to something/someone.
The Moving Around descriptors refer to "can stand and then move"
In this case, does "to stand" mean 'to rise from a chair and stand'; or just the ability to be "standing upright" (as defined in 4:11 DWP Consultation on PIP Assessment Moving Around Activity. June 2013)?
It's a fine point, but an important one to us.
Many Thanks
My wife has to be assisted to rise from a chair and stand. She is unable to rise from a chair or bed unaided.
Once up she 'can stand upright and then move' - albeit with a walking frame, or holding on to something/someone.
The Moving Around descriptors refer to "can stand and then move"
In this case, does "to stand" mean 'to rise from a chair and stand'; or just the ability to be "standing upright" (as defined in 4:11 DWP Consultation on PIP Assessment Moving Around Activity. June 2013)?
It's a fine point, but an important one to us.
Many Thanks
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- Gordon
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8 years 7 months ago #141099 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP moving around descriptor
BH
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If you can hold on I've asked the office for their view and I'll add a reply as soon as they get back to me.
The DWP assessment guide doesn't really help
However, the word used in the in legislation is "stand" not "standing".
I think it reasonable based on the definition in the legislation to treat "stand" as a verb, whereas "standing" can only be a noun.
However, neither indicates the state of the claimant prior to their standing, certainly they could be sitting, for example in a wheelchair, but it would also be possible to argue that someone leaning against something or using a perching stool would have to "stand" in order to walk.
The bottom line (unless the office has a different view) is that this would be something for you to argue as there is certainly an expectation of some action having to be required prior to the claimant walking.
Don't forget, whatever action that "stand" is supposed to represent, it must be done reliably and for the majority of days, if the claimant cannot do this then you can again argue that they fail the activity, whatever distance they might be able to walk.
Gordon
Welcome to the forum.
In case you are not aware, your real name appears to be showing in the forum, if you want to change this then follow the instructions in the following FAQ
My full name is showing, how can I stop it?
If you can hold on I've asked the office for their view and I'll add a reply as soon as they get back to me.
The DWP assessment guide doesn't really help
Standing’ means to stand upright with at least one biological foot on the ground with or without suitable aids and appliances
However, the word used in the in legislation is "stand" not "standing".
I think it reasonable based on the definition in the legislation to treat "stand" as a verb, whereas "standing" can only be a noun.
However, neither indicates the state of the claimant prior to their standing, certainly they could be sitting, for example in a wheelchair, but it would also be possible to argue that someone leaning against something or using a perching stool would have to "stand" in order to walk.
The bottom line (unless the office has a different view) is that this would be something for you to argue as there is certainly an expectation of some action having to be required prior to the claimant walking.
Don't forget, whatever action that "stand" is supposed to represent, it must be done reliably and for the majority of days, if the claimant cannot do this then you can again argue that they fail the activity, whatever distance they might be able to walk.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law)
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- Gordon
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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #141100 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP moving around descriptor
BH
Wasn't sure the office would get back to me tonight, but they have.
Their view is not dissimilar from mine, in other words the claimant must be in some position that is not classed as standing in order for them to stand, however, as far as we know the matter is currently untested at an Upper Tier Tribunal, so it will be down to you to make the argument.
Gordon
tags: @PIP @MOVINGAROUND @STAND
Wasn't sure the office would get back to me tonight, but they have.
Their view is not dissimilar from mine, in other words the claimant must be in some position that is not classed as standing in order for them to stand, however, as far as we know the matter is currently untested at an Upper Tier Tribunal, so it will be down to you to make the argument.
Gordon
tags: @PIP @MOVINGAROUND @STAND
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 8 years 7 months ago by Gordon.
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- Bill Hopley
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8 years 7 months ago #141101 by Bill Hopley
Replied by Bill Hopley on topic PIP moving around descriptor
Thanks for your insights. As I said, its a fine point; not surprised it has yet to be clarified.
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