× Members

Medical Evidence

More
7 years 7 months ago #167503 by jasonb1123837
Medical Evidence was created by jasonb1123837
hi hope someone can help wanted to ask what does medical evidence exactly comprise as in what would your GP or consultant put down say for anxiety and depression for example it is
said -

Any letter your GP writes has to be relevant to the descriptors and not just something like "has depression" - why does your depression prevent you from working? That's what the DWP / tribunal want to know.


if this is the case what would you expect to see in the letter from your GP for the following descriptor -

Activity 13: Initiating and completing personal action (which means planning, organisation, problem solving, prioritising or switching tasks)

Descriptor:
(a) Cannot, due to impaired mental function, reliably initiate or complete at least 2 sequential personal actions.
15 Points

so for example if I cannot do the above like cook food or go shopping because I lack energy and motivation to do day to day tasks due to depression and anxiety would this be what my GP would write in the letter but in his own words?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #167565 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic Medical Evidence
Jason

Although it may sound counter intuitive, ESA does not directly test a claimants ability to work, so statements from a GP, etc. about why they count tend to be of little value. ESA awards are made because the claimant meets specific criteria so the ideal letter explains how the claimants meets those criteria and why.

Your biggest problem will be whether the doctor can extrapolate your conditions into the activity, for example I would a GP to be able to offer meaningful comment about the problems someone with OCD would have, but they may not be able to do so if you lack "energy and motivation".

One option is to give your GP a copy of the Descriptors with the points removed and ask them to indicate which one they think would apply to you and add a comment as to why.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #167723 by jasonb1123837
Replied by jasonb1123837 on topic Medical Evidence
hi Gordon not sure what this means - for example I would a GP to be able to offer meaningful comment about the problems someone with OCD would have, but they may not be able to do so if you lack "energy and motivation".



what my point is is it enough to say a GP writes that you have depression would that suffice or would he further qualify why it prevents someone form working or they have limited capability for work due to the fact they lack energy and motivation due to their depression is my point or are you saying they will verbatim put down the actual descriptors? and the reason why which would be the same ie has low energy and motivation etc

I doubt if I told my GP I cannot prepare a meal or go shopping he would put that down? but he would put down why I could not ie due to lack of energy and motivation this avoids the DM after WCA to say that you may have a health condition but it does not prevent you from working

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #167726 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic Medical Evidence
Jason

ESA has very specific criteria that the claimant must show that they meet in order to receive an award.

The further that your GP strays from those criteria in describing your problems, the less value or weight their comments will have with those assessing you, so as an example at one extreme; your GP saying that you are not fit for work will carry no weight whatsoever as it gives no indication of how you meet the ESA Descriptors.

At the other extreme, if they were to say that A cannot raise there hands to their chest, that this is because of joint erosion in their shoulders and elbows caused by Osteoarthritis, attempting this causes extreme pain in the joint that cannot adequately be addressed with pain killer, then this would be something that I would expect to significantly help a claim as it directly addresses an ESA Descriptor and explains why the claimant would have problems completing it.

The point I was making with the example of someone with OCD is that it is reasonable for the GP to extrapolate what impact their OCD rituals might have on their ability to perform certain functions. I think it unlikely that the would be able to draw similar conclusions for someone who lacks energy and motivation or even depression, nor do I think that it is a natural conclusion that someone with these problems would be unable to work, I can certainly recall periods of my life where I had these symptoms and was working full time. So any letter that made use of these terms would at best be of limited value in supporting a claim.

Now this is of course an ideal view of the world and it may be that your GP would not write these things even if they were fully aware of your issues, in which case it may be a case of accepting what they will write, although you should consider the point that a poorly worded GP letter can do more damage than no letter at all.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Gordon.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #167727 by jasonb1123837
Replied by jasonb1123837 on topic Medical Evidence
thanks for the reply yes I meant the level or threshold of the mental health issue not so much a natural conclusion I have heard of lot who are diagnosed with depression are on ESA ( I know its anecdotal) but I take your point in the WCA handbook it does point to depression -

Initiating and Sustaining personal action

"The medical services handbook refers to depression
resulting in apathy, fatigue or anxiety and problems
caused by schizophrenia."

meaning - "Verbal prompting and encouragement:
all the descriptors relating to prompting
are worded that ‘verbal prompting
given by another person in the person’s
presence’ - so prompting by phone or
text doesn't count. Remember that
your client doesn’t have someone there
does not mean they don't need it.
Use examples from your clients life of what they don’t do
or give up after starting if they do not have verbal
prompting or only do because of the prompting they
receive.
If your client has no-one to provide prompting, explain
this and emphasise that it is still required but is not
available."

that said according to this descriptor they (the GP) may write something on the lines of cannot do a simple task such as cooking due to depression and/or low energy and motivation


another thing about this descriptor - Cannot, due to impaired mental function, reliably initiate or complete at least 2 sequential personal actions.

how is "reliably" interpreted is it the frequency of a task like 2 or 3 times a week or the ability to start and complete it


though I do have OCD as per the handbook ocd may make some tasks repeated but these would be disregarded as sustained personal action as its due to OCD rather than an inability to do it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #167745 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic Medical Evidence
Jason

It strikes me that rather than discussing with us what your GP might or might not write for you , you would actually be better served by sitting down with them and asking what they would be willing to write.

Reliably is not specifically defined but you should take it as meaning that you would need to complete an activity on at least 50% of the occasions that you attempt it, you may be able to argue that the success rate should actually be higher, if you look at the dictionary definition it uses words such as consistent, dependable.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: GordonGaryBISCatherineWendyKellygreekqueenpeterKatherineSuper UserjimmckChris
We use cookies

We use cookies on our website. Some of them are essential for the operation of the site, while others help us to improve this site and the user experience (tracking cookies). You can decide for yourself whether you want to allow cookies or not. Please note that if you reject them, you may not be able to use all the functionalities of the site.