- Posts: 24
× Members
Straight from ESA (SG) to JSA
- Elston
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
7 years 7 months ago #167953 by Elston
Straight from ESA (SG) to JSA was created by Elston
Hello,
My son had been on ESA since its introduction, having previously been on IB. He has been in the Support Group for some 2 1/2 years. Following submission of a Form ESA 50 and attending a WCA, he received a phone call this week to tell him it had been decided he no longer qualified for ESA and he was then immediately put through to someone who dealt with his application for JSA. This has come as something of a shock, not least by the way it was 'sprung' upon him by an unannounced phone call. He had now attended the Job Centre and spoken to a Work Coach and basically has been told he has to make himself available for work on any day for up to 40 hrs per week and may be required to travel up to 90 mins each way to work.
He has been doing some voluntary work for a local charity for some time and only this week worked a paid shift of 7 hours for them, with the hope that more will follow-he is on their 'bank register'. This was the first paid work he has done for some 13 years and he coped well with it but it would be a huge leap from this to being expected to work 40 hrs per week. He still has mental health issues and outlined these and how they affect his life, on the ESA 50 but what he stated on the form seems to have been totally ignored and he scored 0 points.
We are intending to appeal against the decision and I understand this process initially involves a Mandatory Reconsideration. The ideal scenario would have seen him transferred to the WRAG but I fear that the pressure of having to apply for jobs and the prospect of working full time in an unfamiliar environment could result in a relapse. It is frustrating that just as he was getting into a position where he felt able to get back to work, albeit in a limited way, this should happen to potentially knock him back. Is it usual for someone to be transferred straight from the Support Group onto JSA? Also, is he able to explain to the Work Coach that his mental health problems limit his ability to work, without risking a sanction?
I'd be grateful for advice from anyone who has found themselves in a similar situation.
My son had been on ESA since its introduction, having previously been on IB. He has been in the Support Group for some 2 1/2 years. Following submission of a Form ESA 50 and attending a WCA, he received a phone call this week to tell him it had been decided he no longer qualified for ESA and he was then immediately put through to someone who dealt with his application for JSA. This has come as something of a shock, not least by the way it was 'sprung' upon him by an unannounced phone call. He had now attended the Job Centre and spoken to a Work Coach and basically has been told he has to make himself available for work on any day for up to 40 hrs per week and may be required to travel up to 90 mins each way to work.
He has been doing some voluntary work for a local charity for some time and only this week worked a paid shift of 7 hours for them, with the hope that more will follow-he is on their 'bank register'. This was the first paid work he has done for some 13 years and he coped well with it but it would be a huge leap from this to being expected to work 40 hrs per week. He still has mental health issues and outlined these and how they affect his life, on the ESA 50 but what he stated on the form seems to have been totally ignored and he scored 0 points.
We are intending to appeal against the decision and I understand this process initially involves a Mandatory Reconsideration. The ideal scenario would have seen him transferred to the WRAG but I fear that the pressure of having to apply for jobs and the prospect of working full time in an unfamiliar environment could result in a relapse. It is frustrating that just as he was getting into a position where he felt able to get back to work, albeit in a limited way, this should happen to potentially knock him back. Is it usual for someone to be transferred straight from the Support Group onto JSA? Also, is he able to explain to the Work Coach that his mental health problems limit his ability to work, without risking a sanction?
I'd be grateful for advice from anyone who has found themselves in a similar situation.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51078
7 years 7 months ago #168003 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Straight from ESA (SG) to JSA
Elston
I have to warn you that it may be his voluntary work that has resulted in his losing his award.
Do you know how he qualified for the Support Group?
First the JSA, if his GP is willing to issue a Fit Note then you son can be excused from any Job Search requirement for up to 13 weeks, his JSA claim must have been accepted before he does this.
As to his ESA, the first stage to challenging a Decision is for him to request a Mandatory Reconsideration, this needs to be done in writing to the DWP, within one month of the Decision, to the office that dealt with his claim, have a look at our ESA MR & Appeal guide for details of the process, the ESA area also has template letters that you can use to make the request with.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/esa1
You should contact the DWP for a copy of the assessment report if you have not already done so, I would phone them but again follow up the request in writing. Once you have the assessment report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and will then be able to argue against them.
Your/his primary task is to show that he meets the criteria for an award, there are many reasons he may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
"the assessor recorded that he walked 50m, he did but they have failed to document that he had to stop every 10m for a rest due to breathlessness"
than their opinions
"based on my observations of the claimant walking I believe that they can reliably walk more than 200m.
When you have a better idea of the issues with his claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gordon
I have to warn you that it may be his voluntary work that has resulted in his losing his award.
Do you know how he qualified for the Support Group?
First the JSA, if his GP is willing to issue a Fit Note then you son can be excused from any Job Search requirement for up to 13 weeks, his JSA claim must have been accepted before he does this.
As to his ESA, the first stage to challenging a Decision is for him to request a Mandatory Reconsideration, this needs to be done in writing to the DWP, within one month of the Decision, to the office that dealt with his claim, have a look at our ESA MR & Appeal guide for details of the process, the ESA area also has template letters that you can use to make the request with.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/esa1
You should contact the DWP for a copy of the assessment report if you have not already done so, I would phone them but again follow up the request in writing. Once you have the assessment report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and will then be able to argue against them.
Your/his primary task is to show that he meets the criteria for an award, there are many reasons he may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
"the assessor recorded that he walked 50m, he did but they have failed to document that he had to stop every 10m for a rest due to breathlessness"
than their opinions
"based on my observations of the claimant walking I believe that they can reliably walk more than 200m.
When you have a better idea of the issues with his claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Elston
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Derek4
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 2521
7 years 7 months ago #168052 by Derek4
Replied by Derek4 on topic Straight from ESA (SG) to JSA
Hi Elston,
I'm afraid it is common to be moved from SG to JSA. It happened to me this year, but I was moved back to SG following an appeal tribunal.
It may help if you obtain a copy of his previous ESA85 medical report (if you don't already have it), and consider whether anything significant has changed. As Gordon said, the voluntary work may be a factor in the decision.
If your son is likely to suffer a relapse as a result of being found fit for work (and it is quite understandable that this may be the case), you may wish to consider and argue on appeal that he satisfies the exceptional circumstances regulations (29 or 35). There is more information on this in the B&W guides.
I understand and share you frustration when ESA claimants who try to improve their health and work towards employment simply get punished for their efforts.
Good luck,
Derek
I'm afraid it is common to be moved from SG to JSA. It happened to me this year, but I was moved back to SG following an appeal tribunal.
It may help if you obtain a copy of his previous ESA85 medical report (if you don't already have it), and consider whether anything significant has changed. As Gordon said, the voluntary work may be a factor in the decision.
If your son is likely to suffer a relapse as a result of being found fit for work (and it is quite understandable that this may be the case), you may wish to consider and argue on appeal that he satisfies the exceptional circumstances regulations (29 or 35). There is more information on this in the B&W guides.
I understand and share you frustration when ESA claimants who try to improve their health and work towards employment simply get punished for their efforts.
Good luck,
Derek
The following user(s) said Thank You: Elston
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Elston
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 24
7 years 7 months ago #168131 by Elston
Replied by Elston on topic Straight from ESA (SG) to JSA
Thanks for your reply. Indeed, we are aware that his voluntary work has counted against him but he wants to do the right thing and eventually get back to work and we see volunteering as a step on that road. It seems so unfair that he is being penalised for doing the right thing but I suppose fairness doesn't enter into it.
We are in the process of requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration and have also requested a copy of the HP's report of his assessment.
Is it worth going into any real detail when asking for the MR? Most of them appear to be turned down, particularly when someone has been found fit for work, so is it best to save the detailed submission for the likely appeal?
Thanks again for your help.
We are in the process of requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration and have also requested a copy of the HP's report of his assessment.
Is it worth going into any real detail when asking for the MR? Most of them appear to be turned down, particularly when someone has been found fit for work, so is it best to save the detailed submission for the likely appeal?
Thanks again for your help.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51078
7 years 7 months ago #168143 by Gordon
You have two options; provide no additional information to the MR, this usually results in a quicker Decision and the ability to move on to appeal, or
Submit evidence to the MR in the hope of getting an updated Decision, if you opt for this route then there is no value in holding back evidence in case you still go to appeal, it's about getting the right Decision as soon as you can.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Straight from ESA (SG) to JSA
Elston wrote: Thanks for your reply. Indeed, we are aware that his voluntary work has counted against him but he wants to do the right thing and eventually get back to work and we see volunteering as a step on that road. It seems so unfair that he is being penalised for doing the right thing but I suppose fairness doesn't enter into it.
We are in the process of requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration and have also requested a copy of the HP's report of his assessment.
Is it worth going into any real detail when asking for the MR? Most of them appear to be turned down, particularly when someone has been found fit for work, so is it best to save the detailed submission for the likely appeal?
Thanks again for your help.
You have two options; provide no additional information to the MR, this usually results in a quicker Decision and the ability to move on to appeal, or
Submit evidence to the MR in the hope of getting an updated Decision, if you opt for this route then there is no value in holding back evidence in case you still go to appeal, it's about getting the right Decision as soon as you can.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Elston
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Elston
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 24
7 years 7 months ago #168152 by Elston
Replied by Elston on topic Straight from ESA (SG) to JSA
Thanks for your reply. It does seem very unfair for his voluntary work to count against him and I simply can't understand how people manage to actually do permitted work whilst still receiving their benefit. You would think that voluntary work would be seen as the 'softer' option, given the flexibility of hours and relative freedom from the pressure that paid work often brings.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, jimmck, Chris