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The 'Planning and following a journey' issue.
- Doris
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4 years 6 months ago #237558 by Doris
The 'Planning and following a journey' issue. was created by Doris
I’d welcome your thoughts and advice on how to tackle this issue at the appeal stage.
An MR decision stated because there is no input from a 'Community Mental Health Service' or other 'Psychiatric Service', it was deemed the claimant is mentally stable and therefore unlikely to suffer from overwhelming psychological distress. Essentially, the evidence the DM is relying upon is based on observations during a F2F that took place in a safe environment within the home. Medication and support letters were considered by the DM but dismissed. Thus zero points for this descriptor.
Its worthy of note that another specialist service is indeed involved, as those mentioned above are overstretched (a point not taken into account by the DM).
I’m aware this is contentious issue, but are there any recent tribunal decisions that clarify this descriptor ? It is a minefield to understand exactly what is required to satisfy 'Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person'.
I've seen it approached from so many different angles, and rejected the same amount of times.
An MR decision stated because there is no input from a 'Community Mental Health Service' or other 'Psychiatric Service', it was deemed the claimant is mentally stable and therefore unlikely to suffer from overwhelming psychological distress. Essentially, the evidence the DM is relying upon is based on observations during a F2F that took place in a safe environment within the home. Medication and support letters were considered by the DM but dismissed. Thus zero points for this descriptor.
Its worthy of note that another specialist service is indeed involved, as those mentioned above are overstretched (a point not taken into account by the DM).
I’m aware this is contentious issue, but are there any recent tribunal decisions that clarify this descriptor ? It is a minefield to understand exactly what is required to satisfy 'Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person'.
I've seen it approached from so many different angles, and rejected the same amount of times.
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- Gordon
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4 years 6 months ago #237584 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic The 'Planning and following a journey' issue.
Doris
Following a route is about the claimant getting from one place to another, the length of the route is not specified nor is the mode of travel, just whether the route is one that the claimant is familiar with or is unknown to them. It does not include working out what the route is, it is just concerned with them following it.
There are three causes for a claimant being unable to follow the route, the examples are not exhaustive;
- They have a sensory issue such as blindness.
- They have a cognitive issue such as a learning issue or a brain injury and as a result, they are unable to understand how to follow a route.
- Lastly, they have a mental health issue such as Social Phobia that means that they suffer overwhelming psychological distress while following a route and this OPD prevents them from continuing.
Physical issues are not considered unless it can be shown that they lead to OPD.
So the obvious question is whether you can show that you suffer OPD when out?
Gordon
Following a route is about the claimant getting from one place to another, the length of the route is not specified nor is the mode of travel, just whether the route is one that the claimant is familiar with or is unknown to them. It does not include working out what the route is, it is just concerned with them following it.
There are three causes for a claimant being unable to follow the route, the examples are not exhaustive;
- They have a sensory issue such as blindness.
- They have a cognitive issue such as a learning issue or a brain injury and as a result, they are unable to understand how to follow a route.
- Lastly, they have a mental health issue such as Social Phobia that means that they suffer overwhelming psychological distress while following a route and this OPD prevents them from continuing.
Physical issues are not considered unless it can be shown that they lead to OPD.
So the obvious question is whether you can show that you suffer OPD when out?
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Doris
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4 years 6 months ago #238006 by Doris
Hello Gordon
May I ask if any legal judgement been made that deals with this point, or is this based on successful tribunal outcomes?
Replied by Doris on topic The 'Planning and following a journey' issue.
Gordon wrote: Doris
Physical issues are not considered unless it can be shown that they lead to OPD.
Gordon
Hello Gordon
May I ask if any legal judgement been made that deals with this point, or is this based on successful tribunal outcomes?
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- Gary
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4 years 6 months ago #238015 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic The 'Planning and following a journey' issue.
Hi Doris
There is a useful web site called pipinfo which has details of regulations and case law relating to personal independence payment. You can search by activity, issue or health condition to find out more about the legal framework and how the Upper Tribunal has interpreted the law.
pipinfo.net
Gary
There is a useful web site called pipinfo which has details of regulations and case law relating to personal independence payment. You can search by activity, issue or health condition to find out more about the legal framework and how the Upper Tribunal has interpreted the law.
pipinfo.net
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Doris
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4 years 6 months ago #238349 by Doris
Sorry to raise this again, however I looked where you suggested and found conflicting information. Therefore clarifying the following is crucial to the appeal.
In the 2015 publication (p.39 of the PDF version) of 'Chapter P2: Assessment for PIP', It states "Does Activity 11 apply to people with physical conditions?", and answers with "Only if the condition results in either sensory or cognitive impairment or severe anxiety. For example, someone with Crohn's Disease which leads to a severe anxiety about walking outdoors, which may lead to a score under Activity 11."
In the B&W PIP guide Version 34 Sept 2019 pp.57-58, you quote a similar example to above.
Since 2015, there have been 11 updates to the government guidance, and it now states in the 30 September 2019 update of 'PIP Assessment Guide Part Two', "This activity is designed for limitations on mobility deriving from mental health, cognitive and sensory impairments." All reference to physical conditions appear to have been removed.
With the above in mind, can a claimant currently be awarded points for Activity 11 for a 'physical condition' that causes sensory or cognitive impairment or severe anxiety, or has the advice since been changed?
Many thanks
Replied by Doris on topic The 'Planning and following a journey' issue.
Gary wrote: Hi Doris
There is a useful web site called pipinfo which has details of regulations and case law relating to personal independence payment.
Gary
Sorry to raise this again, however I looked where you suggested and found conflicting information. Therefore clarifying the following is crucial to the appeal.
In the 2015 publication (p.39 of the PDF version) of 'Chapter P2: Assessment for PIP', It states "Does Activity 11 apply to people with physical conditions?", and answers with "Only if the condition results in either sensory or cognitive impairment or severe anxiety. For example, someone with Crohn's Disease which leads to a severe anxiety about walking outdoors, which may lead to a score under Activity 11."
In the B&W PIP guide Version 34 Sept 2019 pp.57-58, you quote a similar example to above.
Since 2015, there have been 11 updates to the government guidance, and it now states in the 30 September 2019 update of 'PIP Assessment Guide Part Two', "This activity is designed for limitations on mobility deriving from mental health, cognitive and sensory impairments." All reference to physical conditions appear to have been removed.
With the above in mind, can a claimant currently be awarded points for Activity 11 for a 'physical condition' that causes sensory or cognitive impairment or severe anxiety, or has the advice since been changed?
Many thanks
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- Gordon
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4 years 6 months ago #238350 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic The 'Planning and following a journey' issue.
Doris
Yes, but you need to understand the context.
First, you need to understand that the DWP guidance has no legal force, whilst it undoubtedly guides assessors and DMs it is the legally defined Descriptors that have the force.
Secondly, and in relation to a physical problem, the test is whether the claimant can follow a route and this must be the focus of any response.
I'm going to rule out cognitive and sensory problems as on the whole and there are some limited exceptions, a claimant would have these issues in their homes and not just when they go out so the extent of the limitation should be established in the Daily Living section.
So, this leaves us with a mental health issue and the Case Law is clear on this, the reason that the claimant is unable to follow a route must be the result of overwhelming phycological distress, anxiety or even severe anxiety is unlikely to be considered as meeting this requirement.
So the physical condition must lead to a situation when following a route where the claimant sufferes OPD and as a result of that OPD, they are unable to continue to follow the route.
Gordon
Yes, but you need to understand the context.
First, you need to understand that the DWP guidance has no legal force, whilst it undoubtedly guides assessors and DMs it is the legally defined Descriptors that have the force.
Secondly, and in relation to a physical problem, the test is whether the claimant can follow a route and this must be the focus of any response.
I'm going to rule out cognitive and sensory problems as on the whole and there are some limited exceptions, a claimant would have these issues in their homes and not just when they go out so the extent of the limitation should be established in the Daily Living section.
So, this leaves us with a mental health issue and the Case Law is clear on this, the reason that the claimant is unable to follow a route must be the result of overwhelming phycological distress, anxiety or even severe anxiety is unlikely to be considered as meeting this requirement.
So the physical condition must lead to a situation when following a route where the claimant sufferes OPD and as a result of that OPD, they are unable to continue to follow the route.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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