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Appeal postponed for extra evidence - Help Needed!

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3 years 7 months ago #251363 by Izzy13
Hi Gary,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes the tribunal was by phone last week, after asking her a few questions they postponed to gain more evidence.

Yes we could say that is the reason why we have changed direction.

For the MR stage when we were just concentrating on the mobility descriptor, we used the guides and did a very thorough document detailing how she met the moving around descriptor, complete with supporting letters from her specialist, partner and brother.

The extra evidence added to HMCTS by the CAB was a document that went through the medical assessment report from ATOS that she had and points out the incorrect information and the problems she has. Then the last line is the descriptor they thought she fits.

For example this is one of the sections from the CAB document...
Preparing Food
The medical assessors report states that I can use aids reliably because I have good strength in my legs. That's odd. I wouldn't use my legs to prepare vegetables for instance. I do have reduced grip, as the Musculoskeletal oberservations showed. The nurse decided that I showed no signs of pain and was therefore not experiencing any, which is incorrect and ill-informed. I have had to learn to mask my pain to be socially acceptable and to prevent deepening depression. I am unable to prepare and cook food without having to stop frequently to recover from the pain and fatigue. I have to husband my energy for other activities which I cannot avoid or prefer to do.
I meet descriptor 1f: I cannot prepare and cook food.


I'm unsure if it shows how she fits the descriptor and so worried it doesn't help her case.
Each of the sections is of a similar length and detail.

I would be grateful for an opinion on it.
Does it do enough to show she meets this descriptor?
Does it help her case?

Thanks
Izzy

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3 years 7 months ago #251367 by Gordon

ET wrote: Hi Gordon,

But I was wondering if you could give me your thoughts on if would be harmful to her appeal to submit such extra evidence?
She is being told by the CAB not to worry and not to bother supplying anything else and I do not want to hurt her appeal, but I feel it would be useful to them...I'm unsure if im on the right track?


I appreciate that you are looking for clarification but we can't comment, we do not know what the letters say, we do not know what evidence has been submitted, we do not know what limitations your sister in law has, so it is impossible for us to say whether it is a good idea or not to send the letters.

Do they contradict anything that has been said before? If they do then you might want to be more circumspect in sending them than otherwise. Do they support what has been said? If they do then it may be sensible to send them. How old are they? If more than a couple a years old then they may not be accepted as being relevant to her limitations at they are now,

Gordon

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3 years 7 months ago #251370 by Gordon
ET

Gary is still online as I write this but I can't tell whether he is going to respond or not so her is mt 2p's worth.

The CAB argue that she cannot use any aids but it is not a natural conclusion of this that she cannot prepare and cook food, in fact, they offer no testimony in support of this conclusion at all unless they have written more than you have included in your post.

Gordon

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3 years 7 months ago #251374 by Gary
Hi ET

I have to agree with Gordon, I gave an example of preparing food in a previous post:

If you can't cut up vegetables, you say why not.

1, Because of frequent bouts of dizziness you are only able to sit down for a few minutes (try and say what few is). and then you need to go and lay down.
2. Handling knives is impossible because of the lack of grip and safety issues and the real danger of hurting yourself, which is why someone else does all the cooking. (Remind them again here that when you are alone you only have cold food to eat.)
3. Because of the lack of grip you are unable to move pans, as you would drop them. You don't have the balance of strength.
4. Nor could you take a ready meal and put in in the microwave (you need to say why you can't do this - balance, grip, dizziness, lifting something out - the danger of burning and hurting yourself, being unable to stand).
5. You also need to say why you cannot sit on a perching stool (because of the dizziness, vertigo).

This is how you need to tackle each descriptor, break it down into components, it does not help your claim just to say you cannot do something, you have to explain why you cannot do it and what effects it has on you when you do try to do it.

Check out our guides they are very well written. www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip.

If you have additional evidence that helps your claim then send it in but remember the tribunal are looking from when the assessment took place, if the evidence shows a deteriation after the assessment date then it will not be taken into consideration and they may advise you to submit a new claim.

Gary

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3 years 7 months ago #251390 by Izzy13
Hi
Thank you both for your replies.

Yes I completely understand that you cannot comment given that you don't know her exact circumstances.
Once I receive her medical letters I will bear in mind what you have said about if they support or contradict what has already been said.
Her condition is still stable and hasn't changed since the assessment, but I will make sure only to include evidence up until the point of the assessment.

I have always used the guides and the fantastic help on the forum to fill in my forms and always tackle each descriptor exactly as Gary has described. It's worked brilliantly for me so far.

Gordon you have put:
'The CAB argue that she cannot use any aids but it is not a natural conclusion of this that she cannot prepare and cook food, in fact, they offer no testimony in support of this conclusion at all unless they have written more than you have included in your post.'

I thought similar to you and Gary when I read it, and this is why I was looking for some advice.

What I typed is indeed all the CAB have written for this descriptor and this is similar for every other descriptor there is nothing to support the conclusions they came too.

Partly I wasn't completely sure that the conclusion I had come to about the CAB not offering anything to support the descriptor they had chosen was correct. But going on what you have both said I feel I was correct in thinking that.

And partly as the document had already been submitted to the tribunal and there was nothing I could do to change it I was hoping there might be a way of salvaging it somehow? Either by way of sending in extra evidence to support the conclusions the CAB came too or by preparing my sister in law for the likely questions the tribunal will ask about each descriptor.

Unfortunately she does not function well under these sort of stressful situations and her anxiety can cause her to just clam up and give minimal one word answers to questions. As her brother won't be able to prompt or elaborate on an answer for her at the tribunal, like he did at the medical assessment, I am just trying to prepare her as best I can and think of all possible things that could help...

Just a little unsure on the best approach or what to focus on, so I thought you guys might have some ideas/tips for preparing.

So far we have..

* Written some notes and highlighted relevant bits in the appeal bundle

* Done a few flash cards to remind her to explain her answers in full, not to use just yes/no answers, etc.

Is there anything else you could think of that we could do to help prepare her?

Any ideas would be very much appreciated
Thanks again
Izzy

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3 years 7 months ago #251393 by BIS
HI ET

I think you are already doing everything that needs to be done. Just remember that she needs to keep hydrated so that she is able to speak. I wouldn't try and over-prepare. It's always a fine balance between someone being able to speak for themselves and not appearing to contradict evidence about fatigue, anxiety etc by sounding so very well prepared! Is her brother allowed to be on the call with her at the tribunal hearing? Should be able to.

BIS

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