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Pips Regs Section 7 - aka '50% rule'

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2 years 10 months ago #258910 by JenniferA
Pips Regs Section 7 - aka '50% rule' was created by JenniferA
Hi,
I’m trying to understand the pips legislation in relation to the so called 50% rule

scoring: further provision
7.—(1) The descriptor which applies to C in relation to each activity in the tables referred to in regulations 5 and 6 is —
(a) where one descriptor is satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period, that descriptor;


The DWP guidance concurs:
If one descriptor in an activity is likely to apply on more than 50% of the days in the 12-month period – the activity can be completed in the way described on more than 50% of days – then that descriptor should be chosen.

(b) where two or more descriptors are each satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period, the descriptor which scores the higher or highest number of points; and
The DWP guidance concurs:
If more than one descriptor in an activity is likely to apply on more than 50% of the days in the period, then the descriptor chosen should be the one that is the highest scoring. For example, if D applies on 100% of days and E on 70% of days, D is selected.

The next bit gets confusing:
(c) where no descriptor is satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period but two or more descriptors (other than a descriptor which scores 0 points) are satisfied for periods which, when added together, amount to over 50% of the days of the required period–
(i) the descriptor which is satisfied for the greater or greatest proportion of days of the required period; or,
(ii) where both or all descriptors are satisfied for the same proportion, the descriptor which scores the higher or highest number of points.


The DWP guidance concurs to a certain extent but doesn’t seem to consider the last part (underlined)?
Where one single descriptor in an activity is likely to not be satisfied on more than 50% of days, but a number of different scoring descriptors in that activity together are likely to be satisfied on more than 50% of days, the descriptor likely to satisfied for the highest proportion of the time should be selected. For example, if B applies on 20% of days, D on 30% of days and E on 5% of days, D is selected.

So what is the meaning of the statement (c)(ii)?
Would be interested to know what other think!

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2 years 10 months ago #258915 by LL26
Replied by LL26 on topic Pips Regs Section 7 - aka '50% rule'
Hi Jennifer
Firstly it appears that your full name is showing, so you may wish to click here
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/component/users/profile

Reg 7 provides that if you can't do one a descriptor activity for the majority of days then you can score points .
Majority of days is NOT necessarily the same as majority of time. Providing you have difficulties with an activity for some part of the day that isn't trivial, that will count as a day. So if you are OK in the morning but always have a bad migraine for an hour in the evening that stops you doing the activity that would count. It is likely that a five minute headache might not.
So ( here comes the maths)
Scenario 1
Descriptor activity 1b applies on 5 days per week, so = majority of days.= points. This is reg 7a
Scenario 2
1b and 1c each apply for equal time, say 17 days per month you could be awarded either as both have same points. Reg7b

Scenario 3
1b applies for 10 days per mth 1c applies for 12 days. 1c is the right value as is the most often
Add up days that any activity in the section applies and aggregate 7cii

Scenario 4
1b for 10 days per mth , 1c for 10 days and 1 e for 10 days. Here the highest points value is 1e - it's all for the same time so highest value applies. Reg7b

Scenario 5
1e applies for 8 days per month, 1b applies for 10 days . Neither 1e or 1b are the majority of days. Although 1e is worth more than 1b, 1b is correct as it is the most prevalent reg 7cii

Hope this clarifies this complicated regulation. You can only get one value under each section.
Please be aware that this is one regulation that DWP most often fail to observe!
LL26

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The following user(s) said Thank You: JenniferA

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2 years 10 months ago #259153 by JenniferA
Replied by JenniferA on topic Pips Regs Section 7 - aka '50% rule'
Im still having difficulty understanding the 50% rule in terms of the frequency of the activity.
For example; If you rely on a wheel chair 100% of the time because you are completely paralyzed from the waist down it is not difficult to demonstrate that you use the wheel chair every day of the year to complete any activity that requires traversing a space.
But how is the 50% rule applied to an individual with a mental condition that effects their ability to complete any activity reliably 100% of the time but those activities are irregular and only have to be completed as and when required. For example bus rides to various places that cannot be predicted? For example if you only take a bus ride once a week to do shopping regularly - meaning 14% of the time hence less than 50% of days is it disregarded?
Or is it a case that you only have to demonstrate that your impairment affects you 100% of the time when you choose to undertake any theoretical familiar journey regardless of frequency?
Hope that makes sense!
J

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2 years 10 months ago #259164 by Catherine
Replied by Catherine on topic Pips Regs Section 7 - aka '50% rule'
Hi Jennifer, yes you make sense!

It is the case that you only need to demonstarte that your impairment affects you 100% (or greater than 50%) of the time when you choose / need to undertake the activity, regardless of the frequency.

Although as LL says, this is something the DWP frequenty get wrong, so it is worth making it as clear as possible on the form.

For example 'I can never go out unaccompanied because of x, y & z'.

Or 'The majority of times when I need to go out I have to be accompanied because of x, y, & z'.

Hope that helps
Catherine

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2 years 10 months ago #259173 by MrFibro
Replied by MrFibro on topic Pips Regs Section 7 - aka '50% rule'
Hi catherine,

Does this apply to all the PIP descriptors ?

Also i still dont get it ..x,y,z = bla bla bla.

Please can you give an example without using x,y,z, as im having difficulty understanding.

Sorry for sounding a bit stupid, but i often get a blockage of being able to sort out some logic.


Regards.

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2 years 10 months ago #259185 by Gary
Replied by Gary on topic Pips Regs Section 7 - aka '50% rule'
Hi

Yes it does apply to all PIP descriptors.

PIP isn't based on specific conditions, it is based on how the symptoms you have affect your daily living and your mobility as per the specific PIP criteria.

You need to show that you are affected for the majority of the time. for example if you are in pain for four out of seven days then you need to explain how does that pain affect, what does it stop you from doing?

Does it affect your mobility or your ability to cook, dress yourself etc. The same applies to depression and other conditions, you need to look at each question and state what impact these conditions have.

Gary

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The following user(s) said Thank You: MrFibro, Sharon

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