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UC turned down, appeal questions
- denby
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2 years 2 months ago #267029 by denby
Replied by denby on topic UC turned down, appeal questions
Hi GottaBe,
I just want to offer you my whole hearted agreement with your thoughts on the DWP' "mission"...
Denby
I just want to offer you my whole hearted agreement with your thoughts on the DWP' "mission"...
Denby
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- Gary
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2 years 2 months ago #267030 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic UC turned down, appeal questions
Hi GottaBe
Let us know how you get on with your telephone call with your advisor, make sure that you make a list of questions that you want to ask before your telephone call so that you do not forget.
Have paper and a pen to hand to make notes, plus a glass of water as nothing is worse than a dry throat when trying to talk.
Good luck.
Gary
Let us know how you get on with your telephone call with your advisor, make sure that you make a list of questions that you want to ask before your telephone call so that you do not forget.
Have paper and a pen to hand to make notes, plus a glass of water as nothing is worse than a dry throat when trying to talk.
Good luck.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- GottaBe
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2 years 2 months ago #267104 by GottaBe
Replied by GottaBe on topic UC turned down, appeal questions
OK, talked with my advisor today. She said that she thought my case was quite good because they weren't clearly telling me what I was expected to do, so I couldn't make a judgement as to whether or not I was going to be capable of it, and it was far from clear that I was capable of the stuff that they'd mentioned. Basically, everyone says that I should appeal and I have no faith in DWP not to stitch me up sooner or later, esp when they're being so vague, so it looks like i'm appealing.
Having looked at the journal message about the MR, she thought it might be worth getting the points score because it sounded like they might have changed something, but it could wait until the bundle turned up. I can't really see there being any way that I'm not going to have to appeal under the exceptional rules anyway.
There were a couple of things I wanted to get another opinion or more info on:
1. The advisor said that they only helped with the appeal insofar as helping with submissions and advice for the tribunal, but in the tribunal itself I'd be on my own (with my mum!). This is partly because they haven't got the time to attend them all (it's a small and limited advice service) and partly because they couldn't say anything during the main part of the tribunal anyway, except maybe to point things up at the very end, and so it wouldn't help much. She also didn't have much useful to say about where I might find someone who could usefully attend, which suggests that most people around here will generally go in with nothing more than family or friends as support anyway. Is this a problem? Should I just carry on working with her or is it worth finding someone who will be present (either really or virtually) at the tribunal itself? Unsurprisingly, she didn't think that this was a problem.
2. Regarding the tribunal itself, if I can do it virtually then I will, as I struggle with travel and dealing with symptoms away from the house. Ideally, I would like to have a video call because I have a lot of very visible management to do and I'd like the tribunal to see that, but I would struggle with anything visually distracting, like a split or multiple-screens-in-one type arrangement, rather than a single main picture to focus on. Does anyone know how these video calls work at the tribunal? My advisor didn't. I guess I could ask the service myself at some point but I'm tempted just to put in for a phone call as I don't want to be committed to something that's going to be visually exhausting.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
gb
Having looked at the journal message about the MR, she thought it might be worth getting the points score because it sounded like they might have changed something, but it could wait until the bundle turned up. I can't really see there being any way that I'm not going to have to appeal under the exceptional rules anyway.
There were a couple of things I wanted to get another opinion or more info on:
1. The advisor said that they only helped with the appeal insofar as helping with submissions and advice for the tribunal, but in the tribunal itself I'd be on my own (with my mum!). This is partly because they haven't got the time to attend them all (it's a small and limited advice service) and partly because they couldn't say anything during the main part of the tribunal anyway, except maybe to point things up at the very end, and so it wouldn't help much. She also didn't have much useful to say about where I might find someone who could usefully attend, which suggests that most people around here will generally go in with nothing more than family or friends as support anyway. Is this a problem? Should I just carry on working with her or is it worth finding someone who will be present (either really or virtually) at the tribunal itself? Unsurprisingly, she didn't think that this was a problem.
2. Regarding the tribunal itself, if I can do it virtually then I will, as I struggle with travel and dealing with symptoms away from the house. Ideally, I would like to have a video call because I have a lot of very visible management to do and I'd like the tribunal to see that, but I would struggle with anything visually distracting, like a split or multiple-screens-in-one type arrangement, rather than a single main picture to focus on. Does anyone know how these video calls work at the tribunal? My advisor didn't. I guess I could ask the service myself at some point but I'm tempted just to put in for a phone call as I don't want to be committed to something that's going to be visually exhausting.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
gb
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- Gary
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2 years 2 months ago #267106 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic UC turned down, appeal questions
Hi GottaBe
Your advisor is correct, most of the time when I have attended a Tribunal, all the questions are directed at the claimant.
What usually happens at the start the panel will ask as to what we believe should be awarded.
The Tribunal at the end of questioning will ask me if there is anything I would like to add, I make sure that all the relevant grounds have been asked during the questioning, if they have not then I will raise them.
The submission is important, I noticed this recently when I did an online Tribunal, it was a three way telephone call between myself the claimant and the Tribunal Judge, I put in a online submission which I took time to compile, the Judge and the panel members had a discussion prior to the hearing, the hearing only lasted 5 mins they asked the claimant for her name and then said she had won her appeal and would be send ing her a decision letter, they never told us the decision at the time but it was based on the submission we had sent it.
You do not always need a rep although it does help, if you cannot get a rep then a support worker/friend or family member will do especially if it is a telephone Tribunal. A well laid out submission is what you want .
When I do my submission, for each descriptor I lay out what the assessor has awarded, usualy it is zero points, I then write what I believe should have been awarded and then explain why.
Note: the 'Why' is very important, you will not get any points without it, you have to explain yourself.
Remember to be placed in the support group/LCWRA you have to pass two tests.
There are two ways of passing the test
1 - you can score 15 or more points in the assessment
2 - You can be treated as satisfying the assessment without having to show that you score enough points.
In order to qualify for the LCWRA Group you will need to;
* meet one or more of the relevant descriptors, or
* meet one of the associated Exceptional Circumstances rules.
The LCWRA Group descriptors and the Exceptional Circumstances are listed in the Claiming ESA guides in the members area.
In answer to your question, carry on working with your advisor to get the submission done. I am not sure if they are doing face to face yet, but if you prefer a telephone Trinual then ask and explain why.
I have never done a video Appeal so I am unable to make any comment.
Gary
Your advisor is correct, most of the time when I have attended a Tribunal, all the questions are directed at the claimant.
What usually happens at the start the panel will ask as to what we believe should be awarded.
The Tribunal at the end of questioning will ask me if there is anything I would like to add, I make sure that all the relevant grounds have been asked during the questioning, if they have not then I will raise them.
The submission is important, I noticed this recently when I did an online Tribunal, it was a three way telephone call between myself the claimant and the Tribunal Judge, I put in a online submission which I took time to compile, the Judge and the panel members had a discussion prior to the hearing, the hearing only lasted 5 mins they asked the claimant for her name and then said she had won her appeal and would be send ing her a decision letter, they never told us the decision at the time but it was based on the submission we had sent it.
You do not always need a rep although it does help, if you cannot get a rep then a support worker/friend or family member will do especially if it is a telephone Tribunal. A well laid out submission is what you want .
When I do my submission, for each descriptor I lay out what the assessor has awarded, usualy it is zero points, I then write what I believe should have been awarded and then explain why.
Note: the 'Why' is very important, you will not get any points without it, you have to explain yourself.
Remember to be placed in the support group/LCWRA you have to pass two tests.
There are two ways of passing the test
1 - you can score 15 or more points in the assessment
2 - You can be treated as satisfying the assessment without having to show that you score enough points.
In order to qualify for the LCWRA Group you will need to;
* meet one or more of the relevant descriptors, or
* meet one of the associated Exceptional Circumstances rules.
The LCWRA Group descriptors and the Exceptional Circumstances are listed in the Claiming ESA guides in the members area.
In answer to your question, carry on working with your advisor to get the submission done. I am not sure if they are doing face to face yet, but if you prefer a telephone Trinual then ask and explain why.
I have never done a video Appeal so I am unable to make any comment.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- GottaBe
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2 years 2 months ago #267316 by GottaBe
Replied by GottaBe on topic UC turned down, appeal questions
Had a phone call with the work coach today and a couple of things stood out that i wanted to ask about.
1. Although i haven't been officially told on paper, apparently my new award gives me limited capability for work for 36 months (three years) from the start of my claim. This basically gives me another year. That begs a question: if the appeal were to last another 6-8 months (which seems a reasonable estimate from what I've seen), does this hold, and i get reassessed at the start of next year again, or is there likely to be more time tacked on the end, given that a further assessment will take place in the tribunal?
2. The other thing I noted is that the tone of the interview has softened a bit. There was still reference to doing online courses at some unspecified point, and while it was asserted that they wouldn't take too much out of me, there was still no commitment to what that actually meant. But i didn't get the sense that WRA would escalate in the way that was referred to when i was supposedly fit for work and I can do the meetings over the phone. It occurs to me to wonder: if i am given something that i can cope with, will this fully undermine my appeal because apparently then i would be able to do WRA? Or would the fact that there are no guarantees that it will stay that way, and/or that a different work coach might turn up and take a different view on what i should be doing, mean that I'd still have some sort of case?
I have an appointment my my Dr in a couple of weeks so I'm going to try and get more detailed evidence off of him about problems WRA would cause, but he already backed up what my previous Dr said about me being not fit either for work or WRA, so i do at least have some medical evidence I can use already.
1. Although i haven't been officially told on paper, apparently my new award gives me limited capability for work for 36 months (three years) from the start of my claim. This basically gives me another year. That begs a question: if the appeal were to last another 6-8 months (which seems a reasonable estimate from what I've seen), does this hold, and i get reassessed at the start of next year again, or is there likely to be more time tacked on the end, given that a further assessment will take place in the tribunal?
2. The other thing I noted is that the tone of the interview has softened a bit. There was still reference to doing online courses at some unspecified point, and while it was asserted that they wouldn't take too much out of me, there was still no commitment to what that actually meant. But i didn't get the sense that WRA would escalate in the way that was referred to when i was supposedly fit for work and I can do the meetings over the phone. It occurs to me to wonder: if i am given something that i can cope with, will this fully undermine my appeal because apparently then i would be able to do WRA? Or would the fact that there are no guarantees that it will stay that way, and/or that a different work coach might turn up and take a different view on what i should be doing, mean that I'd still have some sort of case?
I have an appointment my my Dr in a couple of weeks so I'm going to try and get more detailed evidence off of him about problems WRA would cause, but he already backed up what my previous Dr said about me being not fit either for work or WRA, so i do at least have some medical evidence I can use already.
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- Gary
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2 years 2 months ago #267350 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic UC turned down, appeal questions
Hi GottaBe
I cannot answer your question as I do not know you, I do not know how your condition affects you.
When you apply for UC you have to sign a claimant commitment at the beginning of your claim. The claimant commitment is tailored to the individual when you have the initial interview with your workcoach.
As in my previous post I can only explain what a tribunal looks for, to be placed in the LCW group you need to be awarded 15 points, to be placed in the LCWRA group, you need to get 15 points plus fit in one of the LCWRA descriptors or meet one of the associated Exceptional Circumstances rules.
Have a look at our guide on page 27 onwards.
Gary
I cannot answer your question as I do not know you, I do not know how your condition affects you.
When you apply for UC you have to sign a claimant commitment at the beginning of your claim. The claimant commitment is tailored to the individual when you have the initial interview with your workcoach.
As in my previous post I can only explain what a tribunal looks for, to be placed in the LCW group you need to be awarded 15 points, to be placed in the LCWRA group, you need to get 15 points plus fit in one of the LCWRA descriptors or meet one of the associated Exceptional Circumstances rules.
Have a look at our guide on page 27 onwards.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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