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Should I go for PIP mandatory reconsideration/ appeal
- Sabur
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1 day 19 hours ago #303773 by Sabur
Should I go for PIP mandatory reconsideration/ appeal was created by Sabur
Hi, Last week I awarded PIP standard daily living but no mobility (4 point only). DM and HP not consider ‘reliability’ on their decision. Should I go for MR/appeal? Advise me please.
ON telephone interview HP asked me, you said you walk around the flat how long it takes, I answered 2-3 minutes very slowed pace with discomfort then rest for 3-4 minutes. After this distance, I experience increasing pain, fatigue and try to sit somewhere or lean on a wall. Then she asked me again, after rest how long I can walk again, I answered I can walk again with pain for another 3-4 minutes then I need to stop and rest for 2-3 hours. Without long rest, I am not able to go more than few steps.
HP not asked me how far I can walk, but I repeated to her before end of assessment, I can walk up to 50 metres very slowed pace with discomfort which take me 2-3 minutes. After this distance, I experience increasing pain, fatigue, lack of balance, breathlessness.
I have audio recorded all assessment period.
Please read below DM decision and HP recommendation is:
DM decision said,
You report that you are able to walk for 2 to 3 minutes at a very slow speed on the majority days and you are not optimising your pain relief. This suggests that you should be able to stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. (4 point)
HP Justification for descriptor choice is:
Restrictions reported
Reports less than 20m; due to lower back pain. Slow pace. Aids. Rests. Lack of balance,
fatigue, falls.
Recommendation and evidence used
50-200m has been advised due to HOC showing ongoing MSK condition with FH reporting
ability to walk 2-3 minutes (60-120m) at a very slow speed on MOD without stopping, and MH shows not optimising pain relief.
Reported restrictions not supported
20-50m considered, however FH reports he is doing this distance on MOD and reliably
1-2Om reported, however EH reports he is leaving the house on MOD, he is able to walk 2-3
minutes without stopping on MOD, have a rest and then continue suggesting he can do further than 20m on MOD and reliably.
Also, HP tick on descriptor box 12c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20
metres but no more than 50 metres. (8 point)
ON telephone interview HP asked me, you said you walk around the flat how long it takes, I answered 2-3 minutes very slowed pace with discomfort then rest for 3-4 minutes. After this distance, I experience increasing pain, fatigue and try to sit somewhere or lean on a wall. Then she asked me again, after rest how long I can walk again, I answered I can walk again with pain for another 3-4 minutes then I need to stop and rest for 2-3 hours. Without long rest, I am not able to go more than few steps.
HP not asked me how far I can walk, but I repeated to her before end of assessment, I can walk up to 50 metres very slowed pace with discomfort which take me 2-3 minutes. After this distance, I experience increasing pain, fatigue, lack of balance, breathlessness.
I have audio recorded all assessment period.
Please read below DM decision and HP recommendation is:
DM decision said,
You report that you are able to walk for 2 to 3 minutes at a very slow speed on the majority days and you are not optimising your pain relief. This suggests that you should be able to stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. (4 point)
HP Justification for descriptor choice is:
Restrictions reported
Reports less than 20m; due to lower back pain. Slow pace. Aids. Rests. Lack of balance,
fatigue, falls.
Recommendation and evidence used
50-200m has been advised due to HOC showing ongoing MSK condition with FH reporting
ability to walk 2-3 minutes (60-120m) at a very slow speed on MOD without stopping, and MH shows not optimising pain relief.
Reported restrictions not supported
20-50m considered, however FH reports he is doing this distance on MOD and reliably
1-2Om reported, however EH reports he is leaving the house on MOD, he is able to walk 2-3
minutes without stopping on MOD, have a rest and then continue suggesting he can do further than 20m on MOD and reliably.
Also, HP tick on descriptor box 12c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20
metres but no more than 50 metres. (8 point)
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- BIS
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1 day 6 hours ago #303791 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic Should I go for PIP mandatory reconsideration/ appeal
Hi Mohammed
I don't know whether you have used your full family name here. If you have, then you should change it. Instructions can be found from the link "My full name is showing - how do I stop it" benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq/forum
I can't tell you whether you should apply for a Mandatory Reconsideration—you will have to decide for yourself, but I do have a couple of things to say which may help you to make a decision.
I think there are two issues main here - 1) is the distances you can walk and 2) DWP ignoring your reliability issues.
I also think that the assessor was pressuring you into giving an answer that isn't wholly accurate and was undoubtedly to your disadvantage because you didn't know what to say. Don't feel bad about that - it's something that some assessors have a habit of doing.
1. I don't know whether you used our guide to write your original answer (Guide to PIP Claims and Reviews), but you now need to go back and read pages 86 - 92. benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip. I don't know what your condition is (and you don't need to say so here) but do you really only experience pain after 3 minutes of walking or do you have pain all the time? If you experience pain before you even start moving then this is something they should be considering and I think it could be inaccurate to say that you can walk 50 ms. (or 160 - 120m which is what they are now claiming)
2)From what you describe, you can't repeat the activity, and if you put in for an MR, I would argue that the times you have were probably incorrect in how quickly you recover - I mean, have you ever timed yourself? I doubt it. They push people into saying times to make them sound more capable than they are. I also don't know how much you emphasised the side effects such as , lack of balance means you are not safe, and you need to say that the assessor failed to acknowledge the difficulties you discussed. Balance issues are a real concern. They also don't understand how, after you've stopped, the fatigue hasn't disappeared; it actually grows worse and makes you even more vulnerable. If you have had falls, or you have been swaying, or you have had to stop unexpectedly, give a few new examples. If you have a loved one that has witness your issues get them to write a letter confirming them. If you can keep a diary for even a week about just how difficult it is with walking - do so. You can see a template on the page with the guide.
I would also challenge the issue of your medication. There are lots of reasons why people don't take an optimum amount of medication and it cannot be viewed as proof of pain. They seem to assume that if you took more, you would be more mobile!
Do look at these pages - I have suggested it because it explains it all there. Now, MRs are not easy to win, but that doesn't mean you should put one in. Anyone who does win is always pleased that they do, but many people have to go on to appeal.
Hope this helps.
Come back if you have any further questions.
BIS
I don't know whether you have used your full family name here. If you have, then you should change it. Instructions can be found from the link "My full name is showing - how do I stop it" benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq/forum
I can't tell you whether you should apply for a Mandatory Reconsideration—you will have to decide for yourself, but I do have a couple of things to say which may help you to make a decision.
I think there are two issues main here - 1) is the distances you can walk and 2) DWP ignoring your reliability issues.
I also think that the assessor was pressuring you into giving an answer that isn't wholly accurate and was undoubtedly to your disadvantage because you didn't know what to say. Don't feel bad about that - it's something that some assessors have a habit of doing.
1. I don't know whether you used our guide to write your original answer (Guide to PIP Claims and Reviews), but you now need to go back and read pages 86 - 92. benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip. I don't know what your condition is (and you don't need to say so here) but do you really only experience pain after 3 minutes of walking or do you have pain all the time? If you experience pain before you even start moving then this is something they should be considering and I think it could be inaccurate to say that you can walk 50 ms. (or 160 - 120m which is what they are now claiming)
2)From what you describe, you can't repeat the activity, and if you put in for an MR, I would argue that the times you have were probably incorrect in how quickly you recover - I mean, have you ever timed yourself? I doubt it. They push people into saying times to make them sound more capable than they are. I also don't know how much you emphasised the side effects such as , lack of balance means you are not safe, and you need to say that the assessor failed to acknowledge the difficulties you discussed. Balance issues are a real concern. They also don't understand how, after you've stopped, the fatigue hasn't disappeared; it actually grows worse and makes you even more vulnerable. If you have had falls, or you have been swaying, or you have had to stop unexpectedly, give a few new examples. If you have a loved one that has witness your issues get them to write a letter confirming them. If you can keep a diary for even a week about just how difficult it is with walking - do so. You can see a template on the page with the guide.
I would also challenge the issue of your medication. There are lots of reasons why people don't take an optimum amount of medication and it cannot be viewed as proof of pain. They seem to assume that if you took more, you would be more mobile!
Do look at these pages - I have suggested it because it explains it all there. Now, MRs are not easy to win, but that doesn't mean you should put one in. Anyone who does win is always pleased that they do, but many people have to go on to appeal.
Hope this helps.
Come back if you have any further questions.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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