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PIP - downgraded at review - DWP arguments and awaiting tribunal
1 day 10 hours ago #312913 by Oak and Ivy
PIP - downgraded at review - DWP arguments and awaiting tribunal was created by Oak and Ivy
Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum (but not to PIP!)
I wondered if you could give me some advice please, will try and make this as concise as possible but very tired so I hope it makes sense! I have had a PIP review in 2025, and already been through the MR stage, and have completed the form requesting a tribunal. DWP have now sent me their arguments.
I was awarded Enhanced Care (13 points) and Mobility (12 points) via a home assessment in 2018, again via telephone assessment in 2021 however this review 2025 they have knocked me down by one point meaning I have Standard Care (11 points) and Enhanced Mobility (12 points). I am very grateful for this, however I should be entitled to the Enhanced care still as my condition has not changed and neither has my needs or level of support (sadly).
In the 2021 Health report they downgraded my points in a couple of areas however the Decision Maker overruled this, and gave me Enhanced Care still, awarding me 13 and 12 points again. In this recent 2025 review, the Healthcare professional awarded me the same as in the previous 2021 health report, and actually kept referring back to this report in her assessment.
I have lost points on the Dressing and Undressing descriptor (scoring 2 points instead of the usual 4) but in the MR I asked them to relook at the Washing and Bathing descriptor too, on the same basis that lifting my hands above my head makes me dizzy, and also needing to be seated or laid down whilst trying to dress. Not to mention the effects of the exertion and needing to rest before and afterwards for a significant time.
DWP bundle sent to me following tribunal request
They have included both applications and assessment reports from 2021 and 2025. In the log, they have included the Decision Makers system note from 2021, where he overrode the health assessment scoring. "I have looked at the previous decision and the decision is correct (2018). This is because although the customer reports no difficulties with her hands, she has POTS and lifting her arms makes her dizzy, standing for more than a few seconds makes her dizzy, any activity makes her feel fatigued and she has to rest afterwards. Although she states that she is able to dress herself, she needs to rest afterwards."
DWP arguments to the tribunal
1) "The Health professionals medical report dated 24/7/2025 is more up to date and considered ability on the majority of days not exacerbation of her condition,"
2) Previous decision; "Lifting her arms makes her dizzy" Decision under appeal "Able to put on upper/lower body clothing."
3) A chair is not an aid (In the original award letter they said that using a chair mitigates any dizziness caused by dressing.) UT CPIP/3369/2015 quoted.
They keep referring to medical evidence supporting this, but what they are referring to is the assessors report, not information I have sent in such as letters from my cardiologist/ME clinic team. I do not have any evidence that goes into specific detail about dressing and washing but I had recently seen the ME clinic for 18 months and the letter I included said I sadly was severe and had showed no improvement.
a) I feel their argument is ignoring the reliability argument and to an acceptable standard and the period of rest afterwards. I had explained that although about 4-5 days a week I do dress, I have to do it when I feel I am able I don't however have a set morning routine and that it is a huge exertion for me and causes symptoms and needing a long period of rest. I also explained I wore loose clothing and elasticated leggings.
b) In the MR I also asked them to look at the washing and bathing descriptor as I scored 3/8 (needs assistance getting in or out of a shower) where I feel I should have scored 4 points as washing hair etc has a huge effect on me and exacerbates symptoms. I also need a significant time resting, and the heat causes a lot of POTS symptoms including breathlessness. In the Tribunal request I also asked them to consider other descriptors like managing treatments and preparing food, as I scored 0 and 4 on these and feel I should score 2 and 8 (Although I know the food they do not award highly on.) I did not challenge these previously as I had scored enough for the enhanced award and being so poorly it wasn't necessary at the time.
c) There is no evidence I have improved, only the assessors judgement, how do I argue this please?
d) Is this worth fighting for please? I am very nervous about completing a tribunal, and could I have some advice on what to include back to them following their arguments? Do I need to provide more evidence and if so what could that be? I have sent in several medical supporting letters with my PIP form at the first stage.
I am a little lost how to proceed with this and how to respond, thank you so much
Best wishes x
I'm new to the forum (but not to PIP!)
I wondered if you could give me some advice please, will try and make this as concise as possible but very tired so I hope it makes sense! I have had a PIP review in 2025, and already been through the MR stage, and have completed the form requesting a tribunal. DWP have now sent me their arguments.
I was awarded Enhanced Care (13 points) and Mobility (12 points) via a home assessment in 2018, again via telephone assessment in 2021 however this review 2025 they have knocked me down by one point meaning I have Standard Care (11 points) and Enhanced Mobility (12 points). I am very grateful for this, however I should be entitled to the Enhanced care still as my condition has not changed and neither has my needs or level of support (sadly).
In the 2021 Health report they downgraded my points in a couple of areas however the Decision Maker overruled this, and gave me Enhanced Care still, awarding me 13 and 12 points again. In this recent 2025 review, the Healthcare professional awarded me the same as in the previous 2021 health report, and actually kept referring back to this report in her assessment.
I have lost points on the Dressing and Undressing descriptor (scoring 2 points instead of the usual 4) but in the MR I asked them to relook at the Washing and Bathing descriptor too, on the same basis that lifting my hands above my head makes me dizzy, and also needing to be seated or laid down whilst trying to dress. Not to mention the effects of the exertion and needing to rest before and afterwards for a significant time.
DWP bundle sent to me following tribunal request
They have included both applications and assessment reports from 2021 and 2025. In the log, they have included the Decision Makers system note from 2021, where he overrode the health assessment scoring. "I have looked at the previous decision and the decision is correct (2018). This is because although the customer reports no difficulties with her hands, she has POTS and lifting her arms makes her dizzy, standing for more than a few seconds makes her dizzy, any activity makes her feel fatigued and she has to rest afterwards. Although she states that she is able to dress herself, she needs to rest afterwards."
DWP arguments to the tribunal
1) "The Health professionals medical report dated 24/7/2025 is more up to date and considered ability on the majority of days not exacerbation of her condition,"
2) Previous decision; "Lifting her arms makes her dizzy" Decision under appeal "Able to put on upper/lower body clothing."
3) A chair is not an aid (In the original award letter they said that using a chair mitigates any dizziness caused by dressing.) UT CPIP/3369/2015 quoted.
They keep referring to medical evidence supporting this, but what they are referring to is the assessors report, not information I have sent in such as letters from my cardiologist/ME clinic team. I do not have any evidence that goes into specific detail about dressing and washing but I had recently seen the ME clinic for 18 months and the letter I included said I sadly was severe and had showed no improvement.
a) I feel their argument is ignoring the reliability argument and to an acceptable standard and the period of rest afterwards. I had explained that although about 4-5 days a week I do dress, I have to do it when I feel I am able I don't however have a set morning routine and that it is a huge exertion for me and causes symptoms and needing a long period of rest. I also explained I wore loose clothing and elasticated leggings.
b) In the MR I also asked them to look at the washing and bathing descriptor as I scored 3/8 (needs assistance getting in or out of a shower) where I feel I should have scored 4 points as washing hair etc has a huge effect on me and exacerbates symptoms. I also need a significant time resting, and the heat causes a lot of POTS symptoms including breathlessness. In the Tribunal request I also asked them to consider other descriptors like managing treatments and preparing food, as I scored 0 and 4 on these and feel I should score 2 and 8 (Although I know the food they do not award highly on.) I did not challenge these previously as I had scored enough for the enhanced award and being so poorly it wasn't necessary at the time.
c) There is no evidence I have improved, only the assessors judgement, how do I argue this please?
d) Is this worth fighting for please? I am very nervous about completing a tribunal, and could I have some advice on what to include back to them following their arguments? Do I need to provide more evidence and if so what could that be? I have sent in several medical supporting letters with my PIP form at the first stage.
I am a little lost how to proceed with this and how to respond, thank you so much
Best wishes x
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