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Can i move from IR ESA to CB
- Helen
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2 years 5 months ago #265735 by Helen
Can i move from IR ESA to CB was created by Helen
I wonder if anyone can help. i've looked as DWP, T2U and entitled to, but can't find anywhere with up to date information. I'm reluctant to ask the DWP as a) half the time they give incorrect info anyway, and b) I don't want to alert them to any possibilities!
I am in receipt of IR ESA with SDP (Also PIP standard daily living, enhanced mobility, HB & CTS). I am in the support group (LCWRA)
I've been on ESA for several years having been migrated from Incapacity Benefit. I THINK I used to get CB, but moved to IR when awarded middle rate care DLA , in order to get SDP.
Am I right to think that if I had a (working) partner move in I would lose the ESA & would have to make a joint claim for UC to get housing and CT support?
Is it right that if I were on CB ESA , as someone in the support group i'd continue to receive this indefinitely, regardless of partners income? (neither of us have savings).
If so, is it possible to request a move to CB ESA from IR?
thanks in advance.
I am in receipt of IR ESA with SDP (Also PIP standard daily living, enhanced mobility, HB & CTS). I am in the support group (LCWRA)
I've been on ESA for several years having been migrated from Incapacity Benefit. I THINK I used to get CB, but moved to IR when awarded middle rate care DLA , in order to get SDP.
Am I right to think that if I had a (working) partner move in I would lose the ESA & would have to make a joint claim for UC to get housing and CT support?
Is it right that if I were on CB ESA , as someone in the support group i'd continue to receive this indefinitely, regardless of partners income? (neither of us have savings).
If so, is it possible to request a move to CB ESA from IR?
thanks in advance.
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- Gary
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2 years 5 months ago #265782 by Gary
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Replied by Gary on topic Can i move from IR ESA to CB
Hi Helen
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
Your post is quite interesting and raises a few questions which I will try and answer.
I will start with CB ESA which will answer your last paragraph:
Firstly if you want to move to contribution ESA, you would need to show that you have sufficient NI Contributions paid in - there are 2 conditions:
First contribution condition - in one of the last two complete tax years, you must have paid Class 1 or 2 contributions on relevant earnings at the lower earnings limit for at least 26 weeks. This means you must have worked for at least 26 weeks of the last two complete tax years; and
Second contribution condition - in both of the last two complete tax years, you must have paid or been credited with, Class 1 or 2 contributions to the value of 50 times the lower earnings limit.
The 2 tax years that are relevant are the ones that were completed before the benefit year in which your period of limited capability for work began.
The tax year runs 6 April - 5 April
The benefit year runs from the first Sunday in January
Your third paragraph does not make sense without seeing any paperwork, incapacity benefit started to be phased out in 2008. If you claimed CB ESA you could also get a top up of IR ESA depending on your circumstances.
Your fourth paragraph, it would depend on which type of ESA you receive, if you receive CB ESA then you would not loose your ESA, if it was IR ESA then you may loose your ESA, again in regards to the Housing element it would depend on a number of factors. I would advise you to seek help rom your local Welfare Rights Organisation who can take all your circumstances into consideration to give you accurate advice. You can find your local Welfare Rights Organisation to help you with advice by clicking on the link below and putting in your post code, it will then come up with a MAP with a list of agencies. advicelocal.uk
Paragraph five: You are correct, if you are in receipt of CB ESA and in the support group then you can continue to receive this indefinitely, regardless of partners income until you are re-assessed and placed in WRAG or found fit for work. CB ESA is not affected by savings but can be affected by a pension.
To answer your last paragraph see above
Gary
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
Your post is quite interesting and raises a few questions which I will try and answer.
I will start with CB ESA which will answer your last paragraph:
Firstly if you want to move to contribution ESA, you would need to show that you have sufficient NI Contributions paid in - there are 2 conditions:
First contribution condition - in one of the last two complete tax years, you must have paid Class 1 or 2 contributions on relevant earnings at the lower earnings limit for at least 26 weeks. This means you must have worked for at least 26 weeks of the last two complete tax years; and
Second contribution condition - in both of the last two complete tax years, you must have paid or been credited with, Class 1 or 2 contributions to the value of 50 times the lower earnings limit.
The 2 tax years that are relevant are the ones that were completed before the benefit year in which your period of limited capability for work began.
The tax year runs 6 April - 5 April
The benefit year runs from the first Sunday in January
Your third paragraph does not make sense without seeing any paperwork, incapacity benefit started to be phased out in 2008. If you claimed CB ESA you could also get a top up of IR ESA depending on your circumstances.
Your fourth paragraph, it would depend on which type of ESA you receive, if you receive CB ESA then you would not loose your ESA, if it was IR ESA then you may loose your ESA, again in regards to the Housing element it would depend on a number of factors. I would advise you to seek help rom your local Welfare Rights Organisation who can take all your circumstances into consideration to give you accurate advice. You can find your local Welfare Rights Organisation to help you with advice by clicking on the link below and putting in your post code, it will then come up with a MAP with a list of agencies. advicelocal.uk
Paragraph five: You are correct, if you are in receipt of CB ESA and in the support group then you can continue to receive this indefinitely, regardless of partners income until you are re-assessed and placed in WRAG or found fit for work. CB ESA is not affected by savings but can be affected by a pension.
To answer your last paragraph see above
Gary
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- Gordon
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2 years 5 months ago #265789 by Gordon
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Replied by Gordon on topic Can i move from IR ESA to CB
Helen
Just to add to Gary's post.
If you were successfully transferred from IB to ESA and your claim is unbroken then are deemed to have met the Contribution Conditions for ESA(CB) and you do not meet them again.
As you are in the Support Group you would be entitled to payment of ESA(CB) if you lose your entitlement to ESA(IR) if your partner moves in.
Be aware, if you are ever moved to the WRAG, then you will only be entitled to 365 days of ESA(CB) for being outside of the SG, assuming you were put in the SG on transfer, if you have already spent any time in the WRAG then this will count against the 365 days.
Hope this helps.
Gordon
Just to add to Gary's post.
If you were successfully transferred from IB to ESA and your claim is unbroken then are deemed to have met the Contribution Conditions for ESA(CB) and you do not meet them again.
As you are in the Support Group you would be entitled to payment of ESA(CB) if you lose your entitlement to ESA(IR) if your partner moves in.
Be aware, if you are ever moved to the WRAG, then you will only be entitled to 365 days of ESA(CB) for being outside of the SG, assuming you were put in the SG on transfer, if you have already spent any time in the WRAG then this will count against the 365 days.
Hope this helps.
Gordon
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- Helen
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2 years 5 months ago #265827 by Helen
Replied by Helen on topic Can i move from IR ESA to CB
Thank you Gary & Gordon for your replies.
To clarify - I was in receipt of Incapacity Benefit from 2007 onwards (until I was migrated to ESA in around 2012) & have been credited with NI contributions continuously. I believe this satisfies the NI contribution test.
At the time I was migrated, I didn't meet the criteria for SDP. In around 2014, I was awarded Middle Rate Care DLA & thus qualified for SDP as I didn't live with any other adult.
i believe that prior to this my claim was CB.
My ESA paperwork says "The payment of Employment and Support Allowance is based on your National Insurance Contribution records and any additional amount the law says you need to live on" Then gives the figures and says ,"so your income-related amount is..."
I was placed in the WRAG when I first migrated, but after mandatory reconsideration I was put into the Support Group and have been ever since. Unless the law changes and the DWP decide that 'mobilising' includes driving a powerchair, I shouldn't get moved as I can't walk 50m & can't self propel. Obviously I realise that EVERYTHING could change and there are no guarantees with this.
Rather annoyingly when I rang the DWP about this yesterday, after 30 minutes to get through I got someone who told me that there was no such thing as CB ESA topped up with IR and it was one or the other. That if I got IR then if someone moved in it would stop & i'd have to claim UC. When I said from the DWP website ( www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance ) it looked as tho I would be entitled to 'new style ESA' & I had no intention of applying for Housing Costs (bf earns enough to pay the rent), I got put on hold and then randomly connected to a line talking about maternity benefits??
Thank you both for your help, if my clarification makes any difference to your advice please could you let me know.
The reason for wanting clarification is that i'd like to know if having my bf move in at some time is possible, or if doing so would render me entirely dependant (apart from PIP) on him (making it unthinkably impossible).
Helen
To clarify - I was in receipt of Incapacity Benefit from 2007 onwards (until I was migrated to ESA in around 2012) & have been credited with NI contributions continuously. I believe this satisfies the NI contribution test.
At the time I was migrated, I didn't meet the criteria for SDP. In around 2014, I was awarded Middle Rate Care DLA & thus qualified for SDP as I didn't live with any other adult.
i believe that prior to this my claim was CB.
My ESA paperwork says "The payment of Employment and Support Allowance is based on your National Insurance Contribution records and any additional amount the law says you need to live on" Then gives the figures and says ,"so your income-related amount is..."
I was placed in the WRAG when I first migrated, but after mandatory reconsideration I was put into the Support Group and have been ever since. Unless the law changes and the DWP decide that 'mobilising' includes driving a powerchair, I shouldn't get moved as I can't walk 50m & can't self propel. Obviously I realise that EVERYTHING could change and there are no guarantees with this.
Rather annoyingly when I rang the DWP about this yesterday, after 30 minutes to get through I got someone who told me that there was no such thing as CB ESA topped up with IR and it was one or the other. That if I got IR then if someone moved in it would stop & i'd have to claim UC. When I said from the DWP website ( www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance ) it looked as tho I would be entitled to 'new style ESA' & I had no intention of applying for Housing Costs (bf earns enough to pay the rent), I got put on hold and then randomly connected to a line talking about maternity benefits??
Thank you both for your help, if my clarification makes any difference to your advice please could you let me know.
The reason for wanting clarification is that i'd like to know if having my bf move in at some time is possible, or if doing so would render me entirely dependant (apart from PIP) on him (making it unthinkably impossible).
Helen
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- Gary
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2 years 5 months ago #265838 by Gary
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Replied by Gary on topic Can i move from IR ESA to CB
Hi Helen
The person you were talking to at the DWP was talking rubbish, I have helped numerous claimants apply for IR ESA to get the SDP when they received the daily living component of PIP.
If your bf moves in then you may loose your IR ESA but keep your CB ESA, depending on your circumstances, always seek advice from your local Welfare Rights Organisation who can take all your circumstances into consideration before doing anything.
If you were in receipt of just CB ESA then you would not be eligible to claim SDP, you have to apply for IR ESA providing you qualify.
New Style ESA can be misleading to many claimants, the way I describe New Style ESA is to call it contribution based UC, the same rules apply as CB ESA.
Gary
The person you were talking to at the DWP was talking rubbish, I have helped numerous claimants apply for IR ESA to get the SDP when they received the daily living component of PIP.
If your bf moves in then you may loose your IR ESA but keep your CB ESA, depending on your circumstances, always seek advice from your local Welfare Rights Organisation who can take all your circumstances into consideration before doing anything.
If you were in receipt of just CB ESA then you would not be eligible to claim SDP, you have to apply for IR ESA providing you qualify.
New Style ESA can be misleading to many claimants, the way I describe New Style ESA is to call it contribution based UC, the same rules apply as CB ESA.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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2 years 5 months ago #265845 by Gordon
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Replied by Gordon on topic Can i move from IR ESA to CB
Helen
Just to clarify a couple of points.
What is now called legacy ESA is a single benefit with two payment options one based on the claimant's financial situation (ESA(IR)) and the other, their Contribution history (ESA(CB)), the DWP system can only show one or the other which is where some of their confusion derives from.
Secondly, ESA only pays NI Credits, whilst these can be used in part to make a new claim for New Style ESA, NI Contributions are still required and these can only now be acquired through paid employment, your previous NI Conts are now too old to be used for a new claim. The only other option would be if you can meet the Carers Allowance criteria for an exception to the NS ESA Contribution Conditions.
Gordon
Just to clarify a couple of points.
What is now called legacy ESA is a single benefit with two payment options one based on the claimant's financial situation (ESA(IR)) and the other, their Contribution history (ESA(CB)), the DWP system can only show one or the other which is where some of their confusion derives from.
Secondly, ESA only pays NI Credits, whilst these can be used in part to make a new claim for New Style ESA, NI Contributions are still required and these can only now be acquired through paid employment, your previous NI Conts are now too old to be used for a new claim. The only other option would be if you can meet the Carers Allowance criteria for an exception to the NS ESA Contribution Conditions.
Gordon
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