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Getting in a muddle ESA appeal hearing next week
- sunshine
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11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #113313 by sunshine
Getting in a muddle ESA appeal hearing next week was created by sunshine
Hello, I wonder if you can pease help me.
I have got an esa appeal hearing next wek and putting together some last minute paperwork.
is it wise to send details of Dla ? I am also appealing this as have gone from mid care and high mobility to nothing. oringinally with the dla i had to appeal at hearing before payments were made. so going to tibunal is nothing new. I also notice in my DLA court papers that they have the full details of the ESA medcal( which i did not give them).
however I need to sort the ESA out first , should i send as much as possible, my problems have not got better or imroved in any way, as doctor is still sighing me of as unfit for work.
My papers for ESA appeal seem very thin on the ground, Dla is like a tomb weight. I am wondering f i have actually got the court papers. I have sent fit note to jobcentre for months but have also sent duplicates to the appeal , but they are not in my bundle.
Do you please have any outline plans i could follow for submission , as i have no real idea how to set it out.
i have looked up other tribunals but can not discover any cases of appeal on esa, let alone any thing for my conditions......... chronic back pain,frequent migraines, balance out.......... could you point me to a specific section or web line so i can see an example of outcome for esa tribunal
thank you , pleaed to hear from anyone with any useful ideas , thank you all the best
I have got an esa appeal hearing next wek and putting together some last minute paperwork.
is it wise to send details of Dla ? I am also appealing this as have gone from mid care and high mobility to nothing. oringinally with the dla i had to appeal at hearing before payments were made. so going to tibunal is nothing new. I also notice in my DLA court papers that they have the full details of the ESA medcal( which i did not give them).
however I need to sort the ESA out first , should i send as much as possible, my problems have not got better or imroved in any way, as doctor is still sighing me of as unfit for work.
My papers for ESA appeal seem very thin on the ground, Dla is like a tomb weight. I am wondering f i have actually got the court papers. I have sent fit note to jobcentre for months but have also sent duplicates to the appeal , but they are not in my bundle.
Do you please have any outline plans i could follow for submission , as i have no real idea how to set it out.
i have looked up other tribunals but can not discover any cases of appeal on esa, let alone any thing for my conditions......... chronic back pain,frequent migraines, balance out.......... could you point me to a specific section or web line so i can see an example of outcome for esa tribunal
thank you , pleaed to hear from anyone with any useful ideas , thank you all the best
Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by Gordon.
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11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #113319 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Getting in a muddle ESA appeal hearing next week
sunshine
To try and answer your questions.
If you currently do not have an award of DLA, I do not think that it would be to your advantage on your ESA appeal to refer to DLA, even though it is under appeal itself. The panel would likely take the refusal to award as evidence that your conditions are not that bad.
From your previous posts, I believe you were on IB, the criteria for ESA is very different and even though your conditions have not improved, it is perfectly possible for a claimant who has been on long term IB to not qualify for ESA.
ESA is a functional test of a claimants abilities, so you need to show that you meet the criteria.
Qualifying for the WRAG
Qualifying for the Support Group
As your Tribunal is next week, you have the additional problem of getting your submission to the Tribunal Service in advance of the hearing, we normally recommend that claimants have everything in place at least two weeks before the hearing, it is possible to submit papers on the day, but the more pages the more likely that the hearing will be postponed.
In terms of a submission I would recommend something along the following lines.
1. Statement of what Decision you are appealing (max 1 paragraph)
2. Brief summary of why you believe you meet the criteria (max 1 page)
3. Detailed explanation of why you meet the criteria, cross referencing to any evidence you have.
4. Rebuttal of ATOS medical report as applicable.
5. Reference information, if your conditions are rare or often confused with another one, include basic information and links to additional information.
6. Signature and date.
If you are not able to produce everything in the timescale or due to your health then concentrate on 1, 2 and 6.
Only Upper Tribunal Decisions are published, you can look at those available on the following page, but be careful in referring to any Decision, make sure you fully understand what the Judges ruling is, they are rarely black and white.
www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/default.aspx
The forum has just closed so if you have more questions, please reply to this post when we are open again.
Gordon
To try and answer your questions.
If you currently do not have an award of DLA, I do not think that it would be to your advantage on your ESA appeal to refer to DLA, even though it is under appeal itself. The panel would likely take the refusal to award as evidence that your conditions are not that bad.
From your previous posts, I believe you were on IB, the criteria for ESA is very different and even though your conditions have not improved, it is perfectly possible for a claimant who has been on long term IB to not qualify for ESA.
ESA is a functional test of a claimants abilities, so you need to show that you meet the criteria.
Qualifying for the WRAG
Qualifying for the Support Group
As your Tribunal is next week, you have the additional problem of getting your submission to the Tribunal Service in advance of the hearing, we normally recommend that claimants have everything in place at least two weeks before the hearing, it is possible to submit papers on the day, but the more pages the more likely that the hearing will be postponed.
In terms of a submission I would recommend something along the following lines.
1. Statement of what Decision you are appealing (max 1 paragraph)
2. Brief summary of why you believe you meet the criteria (max 1 page)
3. Detailed explanation of why you meet the criteria, cross referencing to any evidence you have.
4. Rebuttal of ATOS medical report as applicable.
5. Reference information, if your conditions are rare or often confused with another one, include basic information and links to additional information.
6. Signature and date.
If you are not able to produce everything in the timescale or due to your health then concentrate on 1, 2 and 6.
Only Upper Tribunal Decisions are published, you can look at those available on the following page, but be careful in referring to any Decision, make sure you fully understand what the Judges ruling is, they are rarely black and white.
www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/default.aspx
The forum has just closed so if you have more questions, please reply to this post when we are open again.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by Gordon.
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- sunshine
- Topic Author
11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #113329 by sunshine
Replied by sunshine on topic Getting in a muddle ESA appeal hearing next week
Thank you so much that has made it much clearer for me.
I will not include dla as awaard is under appeal, they gave me an indicaion a coule months back that it would be in excess of 26 weeks before hearing.
I will stop looking for extra tribunal esa outcomes to reference to, I had wondered if in fact they would be to complex to refer to unless all condiions were exactly the same.
THis concentrates the brain on the addition subbmission/ paperwork.......... thank you for the layout plan i shall use this as my guide. send what i can , the most important parts and top up on the day with a short version ( of anything i have missed). which will mean they will not have loads on the day, and hopefully rest will arrive before.
Would it be bes to send recorded delivery? that is what i usually do But does it just slow things down OR would a nextday signed for guaranteed something be better? I know it would be better the sooner it arrives.
I am hoping to have it ready to give to someone tomorrow so they will post for me, that will make it either wednesday or thursday post.
Could you confirm where abouts i should send the letter to now that it is late in the time scale?
also i do understand the differences( just about) on IB to ESA , have been reading bits from yourwonderful site on and off for few months.
I was awarded 6 points on mobility and that was it, fit for work. However 15 points is reall the state of me, ( or if they meet me half way 9 points). the sitting or standng was awarded nothing and again I am in the 9 point sector of not managing the 30 mins ( or the 6 points if they disagree). on these 2 alone I would reach 15 points. If that is the case do i understand that i would get ESA at support group level. ?? i do have other points here and there, but these 2 areas are the clearest cut.
is esa support group is the highest level of esa? I am hoping the amount that i got on incapacity benefit will be matched, or have i got mysef in more of a muddle.??
I have spent months on appeal lower rate esa and i am struggling with a very limited list of outgoings, havng already cut back on sme of the phone line inclusive calls and my tv license, and some food.I now watch tv via catchup on internet. But have got to the stage were there is nothing else to cut( dont drink,smoke,run a car, or use taxis) I am sure there are many other out there in same sorts of situations. It is a very worrying time difficult to sty positive when the powers that be are making such a muddle.
thank you for your additional help.
I will not include dla as awaard is under appeal, they gave me an indicaion a coule months back that it would be in excess of 26 weeks before hearing.
I will stop looking for extra tribunal esa outcomes to reference to, I had wondered if in fact they would be to complex to refer to unless all condiions were exactly the same.
THis concentrates the brain on the addition subbmission/ paperwork.......... thank you for the layout plan i shall use this as my guide. send what i can , the most important parts and top up on the day with a short version ( of anything i have missed). which will mean they will not have loads on the day, and hopefully rest will arrive before.
Would it be bes to send recorded delivery? that is what i usually do But does it just slow things down OR would a nextday signed for guaranteed something be better? I know it would be better the sooner it arrives.
I am hoping to have it ready to give to someone tomorrow so they will post for me, that will make it either wednesday or thursday post.
Could you confirm where abouts i should send the letter to now that it is late in the time scale?
also i do understand the differences( just about) on IB to ESA , have been reading bits from yourwonderful site on and off for few months.
I was awarded 6 points on mobility and that was it, fit for work. However 15 points is reall the state of me, ( or if they meet me half way 9 points). the sitting or standng was awarded nothing and again I am in the 9 point sector of not managing the 30 mins ( or the 6 points if they disagree). on these 2 alone I would reach 15 points. If that is the case do i understand that i would get ESA at support group level. ?? i do have other points here and there, but these 2 areas are the clearest cut.
is esa support group is the highest level of esa? I am hoping the amount that i got on incapacity benefit will be matched, or have i got mysef in more of a muddle.??
I have spent months on appeal lower rate esa and i am struggling with a very limited list of outgoings, havng already cut back on sme of the phone line inclusive calls and my tv license, and some food.I now watch tv via catchup on internet. But have got to the stage were there is nothing else to cut( dont drink,smoke,run a car, or use taxis) I am sure there are many other out there in same sorts of situations. It is a very worrying time difficult to sty positive when the powers that be are making such a muddle.
thank you for your additional help.
Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by Gordon.
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11 years 7 months ago #113331 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Getting in a muddle ESA appeal hearing next week
Sunshine
I have added the link to the Upper Tribunal Decisions to my previous post, I have just realised that it was missing.
To be placed in the WRAG you need to score a total of 15 points across all of the ESA Descriptors.
To be placed in the Support Group you need to meet one or more of the SG Descriptors, some of these, but not all, correspond to the 15 point Descriptors for the WRAG.
You can also qualify for the two groups by meeting the Exceptional Circumstances Regulations.
See the guides for more details.
In regard the Mobilising Test, this is a test of a claimants ability to walk and to propel a manual wheelchair, whether you use or even own a wheelchair is not relevant providing the usage is reasonable. To score points you must show that you cannot do either activity over a particular distance.
The Standing and Sitting test looks at your ability to stand and sit, so if you can only stand for 30 minutes but then can sit for 31 minutes, or vice versa, you will not score points.
If your appeal is successful, you will receive back payments for any money you should have been paid, whichever group you are placed in, you will not receive less than you did on IB.
You should be aware that if placed in the WRAG then the Contribution Based ESA payments that you are currently receiving will be limited to 365 days from the date of the original Decision, this does not apply if it is the Support Group, after this, if eligible you can receive Income Related ESA.
Gordon
I have added the link to the Upper Tribunal Decisions to my previous post, I have just realised that it was missing.
To be placed in the WRAG you need to score a total of 15 points across all of the ESA Descriptors.
To be placed in the Support Group you need to meet one or more of the SG Descriptors, some of these, but not all, correspond to the 15 point Descriptors for the WRAG.
You can also qualify for the two groups by meeting the Exceptional Circumstances Regulations.
See the guides for more details.
In regard the Mobilising Test, this is a test of a claimants ability to walk and to propel a manual wheelchair, whether you use or even own a wheelchair is not relevant providing the usage is reasonable. To score points you must show that you cannot do either activity over a particular distance.
The Standing and Sitting test looks at your ability to stand and sit, so if you can only stand for 30 minutes but then can sit for 31 minutes, or vice versa, you will not score points.
If your appeal is successful, you will receive back payments for any money you should have been paid, whichever group you are placed in, you will not receive less than you did on IB.
You should be aware that if placed in the WRAG then the Contribution Based ESA payments that you are currently receiving will be limited to 365 days from the date of the original Decision, this does not apply if it is the Support Group, after this, if eligible you can receive Income Related ESA.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- sunshine
- Topic Author
11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #113341 by sunshine
Replied by sunshine on topic Getting in a muddle ESA appeal hearing next week
thank you again.
the wheelchair element has already been excluded due to one of my conditions, infact the medical atos put that i wold not be able to use a wheelchair( when i had not really given it much consideration).
record or signfor the submission? or other way which would be best at this late date?
have read much on the wrag and support esa, but confused now .... 15 points in the wrag section over more than one decipher does that mean could qualfy, or do you mean i hae to get 15 in each area?
support esa i think is me.
I have seen on the interim payments since about march to my year will be up in no time if in wrag group.
losing consious but not due to fits, is there a full definition somewhere i could read up, as i think this is an area that could apply. i know it is not just flling asleep but probably need more info...dont want to add stuff that i wasted.
thank youso much for your time
the wheelchair element has already been excluded due to one of my conditions, infact the medical atos put that i wold not be able to use a wheelchair( when i had not really given it much consideration).
record or signfor the submission? or other way which would be best at this late date?
have read much on the wrag and support esa, but confused now .... 15 points in the wrag section over more than one decipher does that mean could qualfy, or do you mean i hae to get 15 in each area?
support esa i think is me.
I have seen on the interim payments since about march to my year will be up in no time if in wrag group.
losing consious but not due to fits, is there a full definition somewhere i could read up, as i think this is an area that could apply. i know it is not just flling asleep but probably need more info...dont want to add stuff that i wasted.
thank youso much for your time
Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by Gordon.
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11 years 7 months ago #113342 by Gordon
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Replied by Gordon on topic Getting in a muddle ESA appeal hearing next week
Sunshine
If you can afford it then Next Day would be better.
For the WRAG you need to score at least 15 points, this could be 15 points for one Descriptor, 6 for one and 9 for another, or any combination that score 15 or more points .
The Descriptors are explained in the ESA Claim guides.
Gordon
If you can afford it then Next Day would be better.
For the WRAG you need to score at least 15 points, this could be 15 points for one Descriptor, 6 for one and 9 for another, or any combination that score 15 or more points .
The Descriptors are explained in the ESA Claim guides.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
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