Citizens Advice (CA) have condemned the government’s Pathways To Work Green Paper in a hard hitting report of their own, entitled ‘Pathways To Poverty’.

The opening paragraph gives a clear indication of the anger and frustration inside an organisation whose workload is likely to be massively increased by the effects of the planned reforms:

“By refusing to properly consult on its plan to cut billions from disability benefits, the government is choosing not to ask questions it doesn’t want the answers to. The cuts will have a devastating impact on disabled people (and their children), sending hundreds of thousands into poverty, and many more into deeper poverty. This will result from a series of arbitrary reforms that have been designed around savings targets rather than improving outcomes, inflicting hardship on people in ways that the government doesn’t yet fully understand.”

The 44 page report is carefully researched and referenced and draws together information from other reports, some of the many Freedom of Information Act requests that have been published and the experiences of its own advisers and clients.

One of the things it argues is that the impacts of the proposals are likely to be worse than the government suggests, because:

  • The government used a dubious sleight of hand to reduce the number of people likely to be pushed into poverty. It counted people who would have been affected by the Tory WCA changes which never happened as having been lifted from poverty they were never actually put in.  So, rather than 250,000 being pushed into relative poverty by Labour, CA thinks it could be as many as 400,000.
  • The Green Paper doesn’t attempt to work out how many people will lose both PIP and the UC health element as a result of the changes, or how much they will lose.
  • The government document doesn’t analyse how many people already in poverty will be more deeply entrenched in poverty as a result of the cuts, although an FoI request has suggested this will be 700,000 people.

Pathways To Poverty goes through the effects of restricting PIP eligibility, cutting the UC health element and making PIP daily living the gateway to UC health.

It argues that the cuts could push people further from work, rather than helping them into employment.

It concludes by saying:

The government must reconsider its current approach. We are calling on the government to cancel proposed cuts to disability benefits. More immediately, we’re asking the government to:

  • Reverse the decision not to consult on cuts to disability benefits.
  • Delay parliamentary votes on disability benefit cuts until all relevant impact assessments have been published. This should include the impact on other public services and the voluntary sector, and estimated employment outcomes from measures proposed in the green paper.

The report is a must read for anyone campaigning on this issue and should be compulsory reading for any MP voting on it – though sadly they are the least likely group to ever open its pages.

You can download a copy of Pathways to Poverty here.

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    · 8 hours ago
    This slack and lazy journalism is so infuriating.  Here we have an article which is, essentially, drawing from the article in the FT last night, and again says there's a possibility of transitional protection while we apply for other support.  But no questioning of what these mysterious benefits etc are that we're not claiming already.  For heaven's sake, let a bunch of us interview Liz Kendall or Stephen Timms.  I'm pretty sure we'd expose them for what they are.
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    · 8 hours ago
    I don't think we can add images here (otherwise I would do a screengrab), but @RachelCDailey on X today posted the amount of jobs available on the DWP Find a Job.  This is her info (I haven't verified it):

    All Jobs: 110.737
    Fully Remote: 813
    Of which are disability confident: 169
    Of which are part time: 10

    And yet hundreds of thousands of us are apparently going to find work...
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    · 9 hours ago

    Read on blog or Reader
    Site logo image    Speye Joe
    Despotic Liz Kendall and DWP can’t be arsed
        
    By speyejoe2 on May 29, 2025

    The DWP ‘can’t be effing arsed’ finding how many tens if not hundreds of thousands of disabled households their proposed reforms (sic) to PIP will make homeless.

    Let me explain.

    When DWP published their sham consultation on changes to PIP disability benefit there was no mention of the Benefit Cap policy in this 78-page charade.
    Households who receive PIP are exempt from the Benefit Cap policy
    When a household loses PIP they lose that Benefit Cap exemption unless they also receive incapacity benefits such as UCLCWRA
    A FOI reply from DWP confirmed 1.4 million households who currently receive PIP will have it taken away.
    The 1.4 million figure is double the DWP’s own 5-year average for losing PIP and in numbers 728,000 households per year
    As stated in (a) above the government did not even think of the Benefit Cap implications when they presented their alleged consultation paper a fait accompli. Yet as (c) explains losing PIP makes the household liable for the Benefit Cap policy which cuts the maximum payable in any form of housing benefit year on year on year and by design.

    I am a housing consultant specialising in supported housing and expert in homelessness issues not disability issues. I have also been ‘banging on’ since 2012 that the Benefit Cap is THE greatest cause of homelessness and of child poverty. The policy is stealthy and it has cut the maximum payable in housing benefit by 63% since it began in 2013.

    To illustrate the household of Two Parents with Two Children (2P2C) could receive up to £1,032 per month in housing benefit in 2013; today that maximum housing benefit (UC housing cost element or LHA) is £387 per month.

    The policy is zero sum and designed to operate by [CAP – OTHER benefits = MAX hb] yet the CAP is not uprated each year, it is frozen whilst the relevant OTHER benefits are uprated each year. This has the effect of reducing the maximum payable in any form of housing benefit every year in actual terms. The figures explain more easily.

    FY2324 CAP £1,835 - OTHER £1,334 = £501 Max hb per month
    FY2425 CAP £1,835 – OTHER £1,424 = MAX hb £411 per month
    FY2526 CAP £1,835 – OTHER £1,448 = MAX hb £387 per month
    IN April 2024 the OTHER aggregated benefits of UC standard allowance plus UC child element plus Child Benefit increased by CPI inflation of 6.7%. In figures OTHER benefits

    rose by £90 per month from £1,334 to £1,424. However because the CAP or overall limit is not uprated by inflation it meant a corresponding £90 per month cut to the maximum payable in housing benefit which fell by £90 per month from £501 to £411 pcm. In April 2025 a 1.7% increase in these OTHER benefits saw a £24 pcm increase from £1,424 to £1,448 which saw a corresponding £24 per month cut to maximum housing benefit from £411 to £387 per month.

    It is this systemic process that year on year sees the maximum payable in housing benefit be cut in actual terms.

    Official DWP data was published in September 2024 covering the period Feb to May 2024 so included the atypically high 6.7% inflation increase stated above and revealed a 61% increase in the number of households caught by the Benefit Cap policy and had their housing benefit payable cut. 61% is a staggering increase which the 2P2C households illustrate.

    FY2324 MAX hb £501 and average 2 bed SRS rent £438 = no hb shortfall

    FY2425 MAX hb £411 and average 2 bed SRS rent £472 = £61pcm hb shortfall

    FY2526 Max hb £387 and average 2 bed SRS rent £485 = £98pcm shortfall

    In 2024 DWP published an ad hoc report revealing that between 2018 and 2023 the average PIP withdrawal rate was 21% (see below) However during this time period even if the disabled household lost PIP and came under the Benefit Cap auspices they would not have had their housing benefit reduced to below the average 2 bed social housing level. However, the 2P2C benefit household today that loses PIP will see an average £98 per month cut to housing benefit.

    It is bad enough that the disabled household loses £392 pcm in PIP and still have the added costs of their disability to pay for, yet they will also have to pay an average rent payment to their social landlord of £98 per month as well else they will career down the arrears to eviction into homelessness slope.

    That last sentence explains how the government proposals to DOUBLE the number of households it will take PIP away from will see a huge number of disabled households losing PIP be evicted into homelessness. This is an inevitable and very foreseeable impact of the PIP ‘reforms’ and why I opened with the DWP (a) are ploughing ahead with these changes; and (b) they clearly did not foresee this Benefit Cap impact.

    Today, see John Pring of the Disability News Service reveal he has contacted DWP with a Freedom of Information request asking how many of the 1.4 million households the government is determined to take PIP from will become liable for the Benefit Cap policy as their exemption from it is lost.

    The article states and I highlight:


    The government cannot even be bothered to find out and it does not know how many of the 1.4 million households it intends to take PIP away from will become liable for and under the auspices of the 2013 austerity policy called Benefit Cap and have their maximum payable in housing benefit reduced to way below the rents they are charged even in the very cheapest social housing.

    My best guess given that official data (EHS) reveals 54% of all SRS households include a disability and having official rent data for every region of England to compare with the hb maxima per cohort size will be measured in the hundreds not the tens of thousands of disabled households in social housing will career down the arrears to eviction into homeless slope each year.

    That very brief overview explains my righteous outrage in saying the DWP can’t be f*cking arsed how many tens if not hundreds of thousands of disabled households their f*cking incompetent and extremely hasty changes to PIP will make f*cking homeless along with the children of those disable households!

    .end

    ______

    The ad hoc DWP 2024 published report

    https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fspeyejoe2.wordpress.com%2F2025%2F05%2F29%2Fdespotic-liz-kendall-and-dwp-cant-be-arsed%2F&sr=0&signature=5dd5ac870dab2f97f59363f5482d92d1&blog_id=133852982&user=738a2f943d019220bdf4c4fdfe3a659b&_e=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&_z=z
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    · 11 hours ago
    Now Alison McGovern is promising jobs for us all, according to The Guardian, so I set her a challenge on X:

    "If @Alison_McGovern thinks that there are jobs out there for the disabled, why hasnt she, for example, got 25% of us into a suitable job that pays more than the benefits we are going to lose and THEN announced benefit cuts? You say the jobs are there, Ms McGovern, so the onus is on you to prove your point and FIND THEM. And just a reminder, for those of us losing around £8500 from #disabilitybenefits cuts, we will need to earn £17000 to make that money back due to the UC taper rate - and that will need to be most likely from a part time job where the employee can't guarantee they will be fit enough to work on any given day or for a set amount of hours a week.

    Find those jobs. A million of us are waiting. We look forward to your reply, but realise there is no chance of one. Perhaps we should repost this to remind Alison of the challenge she has been set!"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/29/jobcentres-alison-mcgovern-employment-support-policy

    X link: 
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    · 12 hours ago
    Perhaps the government would be better making these schemes they have designed voluntary for the disabled.Also as a half way house perhaps freezing benefits for the remainder of this parliament.
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    · 13 hours ago
    I posted this earlier and it hasn't been published, so I'm trying again (hope no rules broken?)
    This morning was the second MP listening session I attended online, invited by Carers UK. This session was for non-Labour MPs this time. I took these notes of who attended and what was discussed (no individual comments attributed to anyone):

    MP/Staff attendance:
    Seamus Logan MP
    Staff member for Wendy Chamberlain MP
    Jamie Stone MP
    Alison Bennett, Lib Dem MP for Mid Sussex
    Iqbal Mohammed, MP Dewsbury and Batley

    An MP asked:
    Asked about relationship between PIP and the ability of carers to continue to care.
    Issue of carers returning to work - how the proposals will impact on this
    Why we fear that insufficient impact assessments have been made

    Some points of discussion were:

    -PIP is an enabler for people to have a quality of life
    -Knock of consequences on other benefits haven’t been properly considered
    -Poor job centre staff treatment of disabled people
    -Hundreds more job applications need to be made by disabled people than non-disabled
    -Carer support needed for many disabled people to be able to manage work
    -Savings will be hugely outweighed by new costs to the state caused by these proposals.
    -Carer out of date qualifications and cost/time capacity to study for new qualifications
    -Suicidal ideation rates in the unpaid carers community - around 40%
    -Where is the impact assessment on carers? Will this happen before the vote?
    -Unpaid caring is work
    -invest in carers welfare
    -True co production process needed
    -What other support will carers not be passported to under these proposals?
    -Older people who have worked all their lives are also being attacked
    -Change to descriptors could cause even those who currently get 4 points losing those points
    -People feeling they need to lie about their disabilities to try to get a job.
    -When an understanding employer leaves, they can be replaced by one who does not have the same level of understanding.
    Biggest cuts to Carers benefits since Carers Allowance was introduced in 1976. Unprecedented. 
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      · 7 hours ago
      @gingin The more I read knowing of my experiences of civil Service staff and what they are doing leads me to the conclusion there will be a grave miscarriage of justice if this goes ahead. It’s absolutely ludicrous there will be chaos and many people will not be able to cope will be extremely distressed and it’s so dangerous the situation they are putting people in . Previous deaths will be nothing to what’s coming. It will be a grave miscarriage of justice and they should be criminally liable . Though they’ll slither away. They should consider this a warning. 
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    · 16 hours ago
    Notes from another online listening session today, this time with non-Labour MPs. I haven't looked up all the MPs and what parties they are from, but some are detailed:

    Attended:
    Seamus Logan MP
    Staff member for Wendy Chamberlain MP
    Jamie Stone MP
    Alison Bennett, Lib Dem MP for Mid Sussex
    Iqbal Mohammed, MP Dewsbury and Batley

    An MP asked:
    -about relationship between PIP and the ability of carers to continue to care.
    -Issue of carers returning to work - how the proposals will impact on this
    -Why we fear that insufficient impact assessments have been made

    Some points raised by me and other carers were:

    -PIP is an enabler for people to have a quality of life
    -Knock of consequences on other benefits haven’t been properly considered
    -Poor job centre staff treatment of disabled people
    -Hundreds more job applications need to be made by disabled people than non-disabled
    -Carer support needed for many disabled people to be able to manage work
    -Savings will be hugely outweighed by new costs to the state caused by these proposals.
    -Carer out of date qualifications and cost/time capacity to study for new qualifications
    -Suicidal ideation rates in the unpaid carers community - around 40%
    -Where is the impact assessment on carers? Will this happen before the vote?
    -Unpaid caring is work
    -invest in carers welfare
    -True co production process needed
    -What other support will carers not be passported to under these proposals?
    -Older people who have worked all their lives are also being attacked
    -Change to descriptors could cause even those who currently get 4 points losing those points
    -People feeling they need to lie about their disabilities to try to get a job.
    -When an understanding employer leaves, they can be replaced by one who does not have the same level of understanding.
    -Biggest cuts to Carers benefits since Carers Allowance was introduced in 1976. Unprecedented. 
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    · 17 hours ago
    Trying again after cut off:

    EastEnders actor's anger over Pip changes
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cql2910rk93o

    Adolescence writer says benefit cuts 'punching down' on disabled peoplehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd90j80p14zo

    Wales could lose £466m in welfare reforms
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2jy20k8ezo
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      · 13 hours ago
      @keepingitreal Yes I did, thanks. Was just lazy again and didn't do it, but i'm doing it now, especially for long posts!
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      · 14 hours ago
      @gingin
      @gingin - did you try my tip? It's worked for me:

      Once you've completed and edited your comment and are ready to post, highlight and cut the whole thing and paste it back, then post.
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    · 18 hours ago
    Thanks Robbie for your post about the Early Day Motion.

    Siân Berry MP (Green Party) has tabled Early Day Motion (EDM 949) in Parliament calling on the Government to stop scapegoating Disabled people and to build a welfare system based on dignity and respect.

    An EDM is not a debate or a law — it’s a formal statement that MPs can sign to show support and increase political pressure on the Government. The more MPs who sign, the stronger the message.

    If you want to help, here’s a draft letter you can copy, paste, and personalise when you email your MP (no matter which party they’re from):


    ---

    Subject: Please Support EDM 949 on Reductions in Welfare Spending

    Dear [MP’s Name]

    I am writing as your constituent to ask you to sign Early Day Motion 949, proposed by Siân Berry MP (Green Party), which calls for a welfare system based on dignity and respect and urges the Government to stop scapegoating Disabled people.

    The proposed disability benefit cuts will have a devastating effect on hundreds of thousands of people, pushing many into poverty and worsening the lives of those who are already struggling. This is not just a political issue; it is a moral one that affects the most vulnerable members of our communities.

    Please will you add your name to EDM 949 and show your support for cross-party action to protect Disabled people and push back against harmful cuts?

    Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to your response.

    Best wishes
    [Your Name]
    [Your Address and Postcode]
    [Your Telephone Number]
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      · 13 hours ago
      @CaroA Sent to my MP. Thanks @CaroA
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      · 14 hours ago
      @CaroA @CaroA, @robbie, thanks for the heads up. My mp came out against cuts at the beginning, and has continued to be vocal in fighting them, so I'm going to draw this EDM to his attention. Also, I'm working up to asking him to pin Timms down on the pip for pensioners question. It's really bugging me we haven't had a straight answer to that, just rude.
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      · 14 hours ago
      @CaroA @CaroA, thanks for the follow up 🙂 
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    · 19 hours ago
    Email to my MP, Anna Sabine:

    Dear Anna,

    In case you did not see this, Citizens Advice has roundly condemned Labour’s welfare plans, calling them ‘Pathways to Poverty’. I have added a link to their full report below.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/policy/publications/pathways-to-poverty-how-planned-cuts-to-disability-benefits-will-impact-the/

    The Financial Times reports that Labour is considering softening the PIP changes to require a minimum of 12 points. My husband scores 8, but has significant daytime fatigue and chokes and falls regularly. Requiring a minimum of 12 points would still exclude swathes of disabled people who cannot work without a high degree of risk and who would make very unreliable employees. They would remain unable to work, but would receive zero financial help to enable them to meet their basic needs and extra costs associated with disability.

    I spoke to Sir Ed Davey last week, who kindly raised our case in PMQs. I would be grateful if you could ensure that he and other Liberal Democrat colleagues understand that any of these ‘tweaks’ to the proposals will not address the fundamental flaws in this legislation. Labour needs to genuinely co produce proposals with disabled people and their carers and come up with something that doesn’t throw households into deeper poverty.

    Yours sincerely,
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    · 20 hours ago

    Excellent report from Citizens Advice — they powerfully lay out how the government’s cuts will devastate disabled peoples lives.

    At the same time, reports like today’s from the Financial Times suggest the government may try to “soften” some of the proposals, perhaps by adjusting the harsh four-point rule — but make no mistake: this still reflects a cruel, divide-and-rule mentality. Offering small reprieves to those on enhanced PIP while stripping support from others who currently qualify does not fix the fundamental injustice at play. 


    We need to keep exposing not only the unfair policies but also the profits made off this suffering — like Maximus, the private US firm running DWP disability assessments, which just reported massive profits while claimants face humiliating, dehumanising treatment. We face devastating cuts, the CEO of Maximus takes home $10.2 million a year, a stark symbol of the injustice at the heart of the system.


    This fight is about more than devisive tweaks; it’s about demanding a system that supports all disabled people with fairness and dignity.
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    · 20 hours ago
    US firm that tests eligibility for UK disability benefits pays £10m in dividends

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/29/us-firm-maximus-that-tests-eligibility-for-uk-disability-benefits-pays-out-10m-in-dividends
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    · 20 hours ago
    Is it me? Or has the government now truly lost the plot?

    "Alison McGovern, who is tasked with a major overhaul to employment support as a result of significant cuts to disability benefits, said the department would use AI to free up the workloads of job coaches, giving them more time to provide “human” support to those with complex needs and long-term unemployment."

    "People whose benefits were cut under Labour would receive radically different support. Work support will be offered by GPs and physiotherapists, in addition to the extended support in jobcentres."

    “One of the things that broke me was reading people say that they thought ‘no one would want them,’” she said. “I cannot live with the idea that there’s people in this country who think that no one wants them.”

    “I don’t blame colleagues for listening to their constituents who are fearful,”

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      · 12 hours ago
      @keepingitreal Our GPS are only seeing 15 patients over any day and that's if they prioritise you in the first place. We cant get appointments like the good old days.. Even then it was flipping hard to get one. You could just imagine GPS going into all the details of work support. Never gonna happen. We use to have 10 GPS on any given day,we've Two now. If you ask me they just come up with the biggest load of splurge Just to have something to say instead of standing with their mouth open when asked what support will be put in place. 
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      · 12 hours ago
      @Truth Maybe they have good intentions but are going about it the wrong way.
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      · 12 hours ago
      @Dez I'd hire you Dez
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      · 14 hours ago
      @Yorkie Bard @Yorkie Bard, I love it when I hear stuff like this, the more the better. It just makes the whole prospect sound impossible to implement. Cloud cuckoo land.

      "Work support will be offered by GPs and physiotherapists..."

      Would it baubles. I'm going to ask my gp if she can offer me work support next time I go. I'll take some earplugs in preparation for her answer.
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      · 14 hours ago
      @Yorkie Bard “I cannot live with the idea that there’s people in this country who think that no one wants them.“

      There’s no “think” about it, love. Employers don’t want to hire us. You can paint it as us being all doom and gloom or having no confidence or whatever patronising wishy washy response you want to conjure up. It’s a fact.
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    · 20 hours ago
    “One of the things that broke me was reading people say that they thought ‘no one would want them,’” she said. “I cannot live with the idea that there’s people in this country who think that no one wants them.”

    How dare this minister talk about being broken as she supports these cuts!!

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/29/jobcentres-alison-mcgovern-employment-support-policy


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      · 12 hours ago
      @godgivemestrength The government will pull the vote if they look like losing and go back too the drawing board.
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      · 14 hours ago
      @tintack @tintack, Abstaining is so not good enough and could lead to terrible disappointment for us. They need to see that if they"re wavering. Vote it down!
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      · 16 hours ago
      @Gingin
      Interesting quote from that article: "Ministers are anticipating a significant rebellion and potential defeat when the welfare changes come before parliament, with up to 170 MPs suggesting publicly or privately that they could vote against or abstain on the changes."

      That's the first time I've seen an article stating that they believe they could lose the vote. The pressure needs to be maintained so Labour MPs vote against the cuts. Abstaining isn't good enough.
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    · 1 days ago
    I'm not sure that John McDonnell's (sp?) intervention about a leadership challenge is entirely helpful, not least because we've had a Labour leader on the left, and they lost two elections.  That said, one can hardly say that Starmer's tenure as PM has been a rousing success.  In fact I'm not sure how he has screwed up quite so royally as he has.  All he had to do was keep a steady ship and act professionally.  And yes, he's been doing relatively well on the international stage, but those things don't necessarily better the life of people in the UK itself.  PMs are judged on their policies at home, not abroad, in the main, and the whole thing in that regard is a mess.  

    But there is a bigger problem - and a problem not just in the Labour party - and that's that our current crop of politicians are next to useless.  Who are the rising stars?  Just six months ago, that might have been Darren Jones, but he's clearly neither different from Starmer or able to understand the need for self-censorship, where you don't necessarily say what you're thinking.  Who do you see that could or would take over from Starmer and be any better? Sure, there's plenty that would ditch the disability benefits policy, but that doesn't automatically make them a better leader.  And the Tories are in an even worse position, and the Lib Dems aren't making the most of their seventy MPs either.  I'd like to say that this is a temporary issue, but it's been like this for close to ten years.  How else would Johnson and Truss have become PM?  And, of course, the USA are in a similar situation - how else did they end up with two people of 80 competing in the last election. 

    It's all very worrying, I think. There are 70m people in the UK, and Badenoch, Starmer and Davey are the best politicians we can find?  No wonder why we're in this position.
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      · 10 hours ago
      @Slb
      I think that's a fair criticism, but the attacks on him from Labour MPs and the right of the party generally started literally from the day he won the leadership. Even while he was giving his acceptance speech, a Labour MP - I think it was Neil Coyle - posted something on twitter which set the tone for what was to follow. Most of the centrists and right wingers then flounced off to the backbenches en masse and said they wouldn't work with him (but remember, these are the same people who accuse the left of ideological dogmatism and an unwillingness to compromise). It was relentless and continued for the entirety of his tenure. It's not as if they gave him a fair chance, decided he wasn't up to it and then turned on him - the knives were out right from the start. Even now Corbyn lives rent free in the Labour right's heads. 

      The only time the attacks from his own party stopped was during the 2017 election campaign. They kept quiet then because they wanted Corbyn to own the result, which they expected to be electoral wipeout for Labour (as if relentlessly attacking him and then keeping quiet for a few weeks would mean they could say they had nothing to do with such an outcome). Then he got 40% of the vote and deprived the Tories of their majority. It does make you wonder what might have been at that election if so much of his party had supported him instead of doing everything possible to undermine him for the preceding two years.
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      · 11 hours ago
      @tintack The problem with Corbyn was that he wasn't remotely media savvy and seemingly did nothing to change that - despite elections now won and lost on soundbites.  His naivety cost him dearly.  
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      · 18 hours ago
      @SLB
      "I'm not sure that John McDonnell's (sp?) intervention about a leadership challenge is entirely helpful, not least because we've had a Labour leader on the left, and they lost two elections."

      Corbyn wasn't perfect by any means, but to be fair, it would be next to impossible for any politician to win when a very large section of their own MPs are running to the media to slag off their own leader. And that's just what they did in the open - a lot more has since come out about just how far they were willing to go to make sure there wasn't a government of the Labour left. Of course that meant an increasingly hard right Tory government instead, but the Labour right would always prefer a right wing Tory government to one led by the left of their own party.

      "But there is a bigger problem - and a problem not just in the Labour party - and that's that our current crop of politicians are next to useless. Who are the rising stars?"

      In the Labour party there aren't any. Or at least, none with any chance of winning the leadership since McSweeney and co kicked out as many left wingers as possible and stitched up the leadership rules to ensure that the left could never again lead the party. People like Zarah Sultana and Clive Lewis would be very good, but they now have no chance of winning. Sultana probably won't even get the Labour whip back.

      I switched to the Greens at the last election. No, they're not perfect either, but they're still a damn sight better than Labour, the Tories or Reform. In fact, the Greens seem to believe in a lot of the things that Labour used to before it was taken over by the Blue Labour and Labour Together mob and turned into a Farage tribute act.
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      · 18 hours ago
      @SLB @SLB, yes, someone asked before for real leaders to step forward, and I asked then "Who are they?"

      We can' take that on atm, though, we need to concentrate on overturning this lot's damaging madness. If we succeed in that perhaps future leaders will at least have the wit to see what won't work.
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      · 21 hours ago
      @SLB Nobody of any talent wants to go into politics. Given the constant scrutiny, possible violence, and comparatively poor pay - compared to the private sector - I'm not surprised why we got the politicians we have at the moment. Also, everyone realises that real power lies in the City and big tech.
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    · 1 days ago
    The former shadow chancellor accused Keir Starmer’s government of “callousness and political incompetence”, criticising its hesitance in abolishing the two-child limit on benefits, and what he calls a “brutal launch of an attack on benefits of disabled people”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/28/john-mcdonnell-calls-for-grassroots-leadership-challenge-to-keir-starmer-government
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      · 8 hours ago
      @Matt They perhaps had to make furlough high too cover mortgages. Also our debt is on a par with other economys at least where not Japan who owe 260 percent of GDP.
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      · 9 hours ago
      @Matt Furlough was never right. For.people to get most of their income when they were not working when those on legacy benefits didn't even get the £20 uplift given to those on uc was obscene. The worst off made to suffer even more as ever. If you didn't have a job before covid you were stuck on minimal support with no way out.
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      · 11 hours ago
      @Matt I doubt he would have lost.  After fourteen years of Tory lies, a bit of honesty would have been a good thing. Did Labour voters really feel better off after a 2p cut in NI? Less than £10 a week on a salary of £37k. Instead the "ming vase" strategy got them into power with a landslide, but ultimately prevent them from doing anything with Labour values.
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      · 21 hours ago
      @SLB And probably lose. I'm not a fan of the Guardian, but they are right in asserting that the electorate want US levels of taxation with European standard of public services. COVID really did screw the economy: furlough at 80% was far too generous. I work in the insurance industry, and we only offer income protection at 60% of monthly salary 
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      · 1 days ago
      @Gingin He's right, of course.  But McDonnell was also part of a shadow cabinet that allowed May and Johnson to be PM because they were so utterly inept.   And, in some respects, we're still suffering because of it, because they allowed the Tories to bugger things up so bad that the nation's finances are, well, worse than mine!   And Starmer then ran an election campaign that tied his hands when he got into office.  Half of the reason we are where we are is because the Tories cut National Insurance, not once but twice in the year or so before the election, in a cynical move to get votes.  It didn't work, and we couldn't afford it.  Labour should have reversed those cuts - which add up to billions.  And they should have run with that during the election, and had the guts to be honest with the public.
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    · 1 days ago
    Venue just announced for Cardiff consultasham on 3rd June. It’s  not in the city centre (35 mins by bus from station and then 5 min walk to hotel) and will be challenging for disabled people to get to. It’s the only consultasham in Wales. People are furious, as am I. 
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      · 12 hours ago
      @Yorkie Bard Love your humour, Yorkie.
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      · 14 hours ago
      @tintack Interesting thought, @tintack. Good argument for maintaining pip awards - we certainly need an appropriate person to help us access events, destinations, dare I say it...work? 
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      · 15 hours ago
      @rtbcpart2 rtbcpart2 - I think you are not alone with your initial thoughts on my post about Gingin's typing.

      I've been down voted.

      At first, I thought my humour was off but your comment gives me a reason to be cheerful once again!
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      · 15 hours ago
      @tintack Don’t give them ideas /-:
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      · 17 hours ago
      @Gingin They're not even trying to hide their contempt anymore. Presumably the one after that will be at the summit of Mount Everest. Bring your own Sherpa.
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