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  • PIP cuts latest: 127 rebel Labour MPs, Tory offer, Starmer unmoving, Timms on TV

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PIP cuts latest: 127 rebel Labour MPs, Tory offer, Starmer unmoving, Timms on TV

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Tuesday saw more Labour rebels sign the amendment which aims to kill the Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill.

The total number of signatories is now 134, which includes:

  • 127 Labour MPs (including two suspended)
  • 5 DUP MPs
  • 2 independent MPs

There’s a full alphabetical list at the end of this article.

It’s also been suggested that one Labour MP has removed their name from the amendment as whips and ministers pile pressure on rebels to get back into line, though we haven’t identified which MP this might be.  Update:  one name missing from the latest list is Samantha Niblett, the Labour MP for South Derbyshire.

Tory offer to support the bill

Kemi Badenoch offered to give Tory support to the beleaguered bill, but with three conditions:

  • Reduce the cost of welfare more than this bill does
  • Get more people into work
  • Guarantee no new tax rises in the Autumn

Labour rejected the offer in what appeared to be an ugly and unprincipled episode of bartering with the lives of disabled claimants.

London mayor backs rebels

London mayor, Sadiq Khan, has called on the government to drop the bill until a proper system of support has been put in place, arguing: 

“I have always said that more must be done to support people to go from relying on benefits to getting back into work. It’s vital for a healthy and prosperous London. What we can’t do is take away the vital safety net that so many vulnerable and disabled Londoners rely upon.”

Starmer unmoving

Keir Starmer is refusing to give ground to the Labour rebels.  He told reporters yesterday “We’re pressing on with a vote on this because we need to bring about reform.”

Elsewhere, there are rumours he is considering postponing next Tuesday's vote in order to gain time to win rebels round.

Timms to face work and pensions committee

Stephen Timms, the DWP disability minister currently working on rewriting the PIP eligibility criteria, is to face questioning by the commons work and pensions committee from 9.43am today.  You can watch him on parliament tv

Full alphabetical list of the MPs who have signed the amendment

Abbott, Ms Diane

Abrahams, Debbie

Al-Hassan, Sadik

Ali, Tahir

Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena

Arthur, Dr Scott

Baker, Richard

Bance, Antonia

Barker, Paula

Barron, Lee

Beales, Danny

Beavers, Lorraine

Begum, Apsana

Betts, Mr Clive

Billington, Ms Polly

Bishop, Matt

Blake, Olivia

Brash, Mr Jonathan

Burgon, Richard

Burke, Maureen

Butler, Dawn

Byrne, Ian

Cadbury, Ruth

Campbell, Mr Gregory  (DUP)

Coleman, Ben

Collinge, Lizzi

Cooper, Andrew

Cooper, Dr Beccy

Craft, Jen

Creasy, Ms Stella

Davies, Paul

De Cordova, Marsha

Dean, Josh

Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh

Dixon, Anna

Duffield, Rosie (Independent)

Duncan-Jordan, Neil

Easton,  Alex (Independent NI)

Eastwood, Colum

Eastwood, Sorcha

Eccles, Cat

Edwards, Lauren

Efford, Clive

Ellis, Maya

Entwistle, Kirith

Eshalomi, Florence

Evans, Chris

Fenton-Glynn, Josh

Ferguson, Patricia

Foster, Mr Paul

Foxcroft, Vicky

Francis, Daniel

Furniss, Gill

Gardner, Dr Allison

Gilbert, Tracy

Gwynne,  Andrew (Labour suspended)

Hack, Amanda

Haigh, Louise

Hall, Sarah

Hamilton, Fabian

Hamilton, Paulette

Hanna, Claire

Hayes, Helen

Hillier, Dame Meg

Hinchliff, Chris

Hume, Alison

Hurley, Patrick

Hussain, Imran

Jermy, Terry

Jogee, Adam

Johnson, Kim

Jones, Lillian

Jones, Ruth

Kelly Foy, Mary

Khan, Afzal

Lamb, Peter

Lavery, Ian

Leishman, Brian

Lewell, Emma

Lewis, Clive

Lockhart, Carla (DUP)

Long Bailey, Rebecca

Maskell, Rachael

McDonald, Andy

McDonnell, John  (Labour suspended)

McKenna, Kevin

Midgley, Anneliese

Mishra, Navendu

Mohamed, Abtisam

Morris, Grahame

Mullane, Margaret

Myer, Luke

Naish, James

Naismith, Connor

Newbury, Josh

Nichols, Charlotte

Onn, Melanie

Opher, Dr Simon

Osamor, Kate

Osborne, Kate

Owen, Sarah

Paffey, Darren

Pitcher, Lee

Platt, Jo

Quigley, Mr Richard

Qureshi, Yasmin

Ranger, Andrew

Rhodes, Martin

Ribeiro-Addy, Bell

Riddell-Carpenter, Jenny

Rimmer, Ms Marie

Robertson, Dave

Robinson, Gavin (DUP)

Rushworth, Sam

Shah, Naz

Shannon, Jim (DUP)

Smith, Cat

Sobel, Alex

Stainbank, Euan

Stewart, Elaine

Sullivan, Kirsteen

Swann, Robin

Trickett, Jon

Tufnell, Henry

Turner, Laurence

Vaughan, Tony

Webb, Chris

Western, Matt

Whittome, Nadia

Williams, David

Wilson,  Sammy (DUP)

Witherden, Steve

Yang, Yuan

Yasin, Mohammad

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    John
    · 19 days ago
    With Timms saying UC health recipients with some exceptions will be required to engage in support conversations and in the future they will look at increasing conditionality for them. I took a look at a condition insight report that is used as a guide to a medical condition for PIP assessors. To give me an idea as to the best case scenario for DWP training of the work coaches, and decision makers.

    For bipolar the condition insight report is like a very cursory layman's guide to bipolar disorder which fails to mention all the types of the disorder or all the symptoms. And while it does cover psychosis symptoms it does not cover other severe symptoms beyond that, so does not cover the full severity of the disorder suffered by those who get the most extreme symptoms.

    As such someone relying on it would be out of their depth when dealing with some people with the disorder and not even aware they are out of their depth. This would put the claimant in danger as the DWP employees trying to encourage them into work, and in the future getting to decide what the claimant can and cannot do and if they should be sanctioned for non compliance would have a false sense of confidence in their flawed and limited knowledge of the condition. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    kK
    · 19 days ago
    One of the compromises muted was to reduce the requirement to 3 points, opening up the help getting into shower/bath descriptor, as a valid gateway. 
    This is the only three pointer.

    Another was to bring forward the work assistance package.


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    D
    · 19 days ago
    https://archive.ph/SfbmZ
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Gingin
      · 19 days ago
      @D ‘Polling from YouGov suggests far more voters who have deserted Labour since July have switched to the Liberal Democrats, Greens, Plaid Cymru or the Scottish National party rather than Reform or the Conservatives.’
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Wayne
    · 19 days ago
    https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-the-frantic-phone-calls-starmers-team-are-making-to-stop-welfare-rebellion-that-could-defeat-him-13388488

    Remove names from rebels vote 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    john
    · 19 days ago
    Starmer today
    "Trust me, I am fighting for you and politics is about who you have in your mind's eye"
    "building a fairer Britain"
    "the challenges you face are at the front and centre of my mind"
    "what you have shared with us, what you feed in has been heard and reflected in our strategy. Your fingerprints are on that strategy. It came out of the discussions that I would have had with many people" "It wasn't plucked out of the sky by a government. It was reflecting back what view you told us we needed to change. And that is what I mean by partnership"
    "plan drawn up in partnership"
    "It's a partnership"
    "facing down the challenges"
    "We want to be the best partner"
    "and to give you the best possible conditions to succeed"
    "that means of course we have to back you to the hilt"

    Sadly not talking about policies on disability.
    Talking about business policies at the British Chamber of Commerce.
    It seems Starmer listens to and values some people, and really wants to help them. 

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Kevin
    · 19 days ago
    There is so much talk at the moment about people with “minor mental health problems” receiving benefits. This appalls me as the leading cause of death for men under 50 years of is suicide due to so called “minor mental health problems”!  

    Yes some mental health disorders are more serious than others, that’s common sense, some life long genetic conditions like bipolar, schizophrenia, psychosis autism, OCD  etc etc are severe mental disorders and as such a life long disability. 

    That being said to dismiss people suffering from as the government and ignorant general populous see it “minor mental health issues” and make them look like they are dreadful human beings to claim benefits when they are suffering is a travesty in our society. If the leading cause of death in under 50s men is suicide then how is a mental health issue minor. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      JDW 64
      · 18 days ago
      @Kevin Kevin, yes!!!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      · 19 days ago
      @Kevin Well said Kevin. Indisputable facts and truth. Thank you
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      john
      · 19 days ago
      @Kevin The government's rhetoric and planned policies are also bad on severe mental illnesses.

      According to Liz Kendall PIP was never intended for people with mental health conditions. And work is good for those with mental health conditions including severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia and psychosis. And we really need to focus on putting employment advisers into our mental health services. It is better for people. It is better for the economy. We just have to think in a different way. Including having DWP employment advisers going onto psychiatric hospital inpatient wards helping those with severe mental illnesses, write CVs and take steps towards and into work, as work is good for their health and good for the country.

      According to the Pathways to Work Green Paper.
      "More intensive longer-term work, health and skills support"
      "Under the banner of “pathways to work” this will bring together and build on existing support – from WorkWell, Individual Placement and Support for those with severe mental illness or substance abuse"
      "The government will also continue expansions to Individual Placement Support (IPS) for those with severe mental illness or substance abuse"

      IPS involves intensive, individual support, a rapid job search followed by placement in paid employment, and time-unlimited in-work support for both the employee and the employer.

      Meanwhile section 9 likely substantial detrimental effect to health, eligibility for LCWRA and the extra money and protection from conditionality, looks likely to be reduced or abolished.

      The current system due to people being denied section 9 likely substantial detrimental effect to health eligibility, even when their diagnosis and medical history makes it look blatantly obvious they should be given it. Has caused a lot of hospitalizations and deaths. This new system looks likely to cause more. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Pickle
    · 19 days ago
    Just read a Guardian quote from an anon MP which said a lot are being swayed by the pressure from constituents. So don’t give up, it really is making a difference!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Vic
    · 19 days ago
    OOPS ! Sentence Should of said 
    The ruthless pursuit of the disabled people has Damaged Labour- No matter what happens next story by Frances Ryan The Guardian .

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Barmy
      · 19 days ago
      @Vic Yes it was a mad fight especially for labour.
      Annoy the poor, the disabled, farmers, the old, the ill, the principled.  who else is going to vote Labour if you alienate all the above, hedge fund managers!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Vic
    · 19 days ago
    The Guardian  Today  .
    Story by Frances Ryan .
    Headline .
    T
    No matter what happens next .
    Ending sentence 
    No Labour MP who backs it should be forgiven .
    Worth a read.
    Welldone to the journalist for writing an accurate reality on how it will affect a disabled person .
    Starmer ,Reeves ,Kendall & Timms should resign from their positions & the ones who are voting with them ,
    You are responsible for it by neglecting the human rights of the ill, disabled & not protecting the vulnerable .


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Leah
    · 20 days ago
    Just to give us all something to have a little laugh at, a Guardian headline from 5 days ago that keeps popping up on my search 'Whip’s resignation over disability benefit cuts not a sign of major rebellion, Nandy says'

    Haha, how wrong Nandy was eh? Just proves they will say anything to make us lose hope and try to keep MP's in line. As much we use newspapers for updates, lets not forget they use them to dismiss and play down anything not favourable to them too. Let's try not to do exactly what they want, which is to lose hope, and go away.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Lill
    · 20 days ago
    Forgot to add to the  last post nothing makes sense one min one thing is said then something else  forgot  to add  that  if its true Tories arent supporting pm even if they did don't think labour would except already put in last post why  and so much is going around the stories have gone mad better to shut off the media love the reaction and views don't believe everything seen .
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Dora
    · 20 days ago
    Starmer is being very bloody-minded about this. It amounts to State persecution for many. 
    It's faulty logic. People with chronic illnesses, mental health issues, disability etc can't work. How is taking their support systems away going to help society ? 
    Why would anyone not go to work when they could? It's nonsensical. 
    Where PIP needed amending, it hasn't. 
    It should have been that those earning X as a higher amount could not apply. Simples 

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Gingin
    · 20 days ago
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Gingin
    · 20 days ago

    On Radio 4 Today Programme at just past 8.12am ish saying a member of the cabinet said the govt would have to make 'very big concessions' that rebels could buy into. 'Unless they do that the bill is dead'. 

    Also a lot of criticism of Morgan McSweeney. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Anniesmum
    · 20 days ago
    Guardian column about how the relentless pursuit of disabled people will damage labour what ever the outcome of this vote is. 


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Gingin
    · 20 days ago
    Radio 4 Today programme at around 36mins into the programme - saying there are calls for 'regime change'. He describes this as 'apocalyptic' for such a new government. Labour ministers pointing to Morgan McSweeney and even Starmer himself being the problem. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Gingin
    · 20 days ago
    Breaking news about negotiations around concessions (although the Guardian was about 10 hours ahead of the BBC on this). The journalist is at pains to emphasise the government 'want' to hold the vote on Tuesday - so No 10 is effectively saying it is not for definite:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cj937xylzyet
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Cathedral city
    · 20 days ago
    Headline in today's Telegraph,

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    SLB
    · 20 days ago
    Sorry.  Me again.  But this article in the New Statesman is exactly what we should have been expecting from our journalists and column writers for the last three months.  It's a brilliantly written piece, and utterly gutwrenching.  The link should skip the paywall (with apologies to the New Statesman!).

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anniesmum
      · 19 days ago
      @Gingin It is and really moving examples. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Gingin
      · 20 days ago
      @SLB yes, this is brilliant. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    SLB
    · 20 days ago
    The govt is doing itself any favours.  In The Times tomorrow, a government source refers to the rebellion as "self-centred rubbish."  Other papers are saying there might be concessions - such as completely removing the PIP eligibility changes (Telegraph).  That, I assume, would make the bill utterly pointless anyway.  They might as well pull it, because this bill is to fit in with a later one regarding the Work Capability Assessment.  They're not going to save money on that if it is still linked to PIP, which everyone would still get.  It's so utterly chaotic.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      tintack
      · 19 days ago
      @SLB
      "They might as well pull it, because this bill is to fit in with a later one regarding the Work Capability Assessment. They're not going to save money on that if it is still linked to PIP, which everyone would still get."

      They would however still save money from the 600,000 of us who currently get LCWRA but not PIP. I'm really concerned that all the focus on the PIP descriptor changes may make rebel MPs think that that is the only thing that needs to change, but there are 600,000 of us who get LCWRA but not PIP and will be utterly screwed if we lose our UC Health - that's an awful lot of people and yet we seem to have been forgotten.  

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