CHANGES IN ESA AFTER 2013

ALPHA wrote: Most members can guarantee an answer from their experiences.
Would you be considering changes or a sister site ?

Thanks

Hi A,

I am not quite sure what you mean by your comments ???

bro58

Millhouse wrote:

ALPHA wrote: We are all on the same boat here and do need reassurances from others on this boat. We would not be chatting here we would be and only can give information based on personal experiences and if something is some what misleading a mod can always add a guiding comment. It is very upsetting to what is happening to us and it would be nice to be comforted in numbers. I paid a lot of money 2 weeks shopping money to be a member. You have certainly contributed in the success which I thank you but ultimately its the health care professional's letter that determines the result. I would have to reconsider my membership in the future if the only people I'm in contact with is Mods with a disclaimer.

Thank You

I'm just a member and have been posting a little lately purely because I am caught up in the whole appeal process and it is all fresh in my mind and I am researching heavily to get my appeal in. All my posts here have been allowed on the forum. I'm no expert but I can also see other normal members posting experience too.

As to your reassessment, your point score is irrelevant as far as being in the support group. Getting 15 points and above in any of the Limited capability for Work descriptors will put you into the WRAG group. These descriptors are listed on Page 18 of this guide.
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/upl...a214-rev-oct2013.pdf

Do be in the support group you need to qualify against one of the Limited Capability for Work-related activity descriptors. See page 26 in the same guide
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/upl...a214-rev-oct2013.pdf


I would suggest that you look at your original decision and see which Limited Capability for Work-Related Activity descriptor put you in the support group and see if you still qualify and maybe obtain any medical evidence to show that you still qualify.

My view is that it is important to understand the difference between Page 18 and Page 26 of that guide. I think the wording of it is jargon like and deliberately designed to confuse in that most ordinary people would think that being found with "limited capability for work" would mean that you couldn't work when in fact it puts you into the WRAG group.

It took me ages to get my head around understanding this and I consider myself reasonably intelligent, lol but then again that could be due to my cognitive impairment (but then again ATOS reckon that I don't have that )

I find it becomes clearer looking at both lists side by side, which is why I have linked to that site. (Note to mods, I can find the support group descriptors on this site, in fact they are top of my google search but I cannot easily find the limited capability for work descriptors and they don't appear on a google search. I'm not complaining because this site is an excellent resource but just giving some feedback on what I have found helpful in my understanding of the appeal process)

Hi Mh,

I thought that our : ESA Claims Guides (3rd & 4th links down the page) clarified things quite well.

I joined this site as a member knowing nothing at all about ESA some 4-5 years ago, and found them easy to understand with a little input from the Mods at that time.

Please understand, Mods will not enter into discussions regarding how the site operates or how clear our guides are.

That is within the remit of the site owner who compiles the guides.

There are now only 3 Mods, all with their own medical conditions and personal issues to deal with. There were 7-8 when I first joined and the Discussion Forum was open.

It is sometimes a struggle for us to operate under current time constraints never mind expanding the forum remit.

Remember, every post has to be read and approved by a Mod before it shows up on the forum.

We did have a members survey some months ago, and the vast majority of our members wanted the forum to remain as is, i.e. all posts having to be pre-approved, and were very happy with the way it operates.

In my 4-5 years as a Mod, I can remember no more than 7-8 members who have been unhappy with how we operate.

To put it simply, if the site opening hours where to be extended, or the remit extended, I for one would not be able to contribute, and I believe that the other Mods would feel likewise.

If that was to happen, there wouldn't be a forum at all !!!

I would ask our members to have a little bit of consideration for the Mods.

To reiterate, we are volunteers, and Moderate ex-gratia !!

Of course. if any of our members feel that they can offer the time and commitment needed to become a Mod, they are most welcome to contact Steve, who has the final say. (After consulting us)

Regarding The ESA Descriptors :

The WRAG (LCW) Functional Schedule 2 Descriptors

&

ESA Reg 29 for entry to The WRAG (LCW)

PLUS Post 28/01/13 Amendment of :

(3) Paragraph (2)(b) does not apply where the risk could be reduced by a significant amount by—

(a)reasonable adjustments being made in the claimant’s workplace;

or

(b)the claimant taking medication to manage the claimant’s condition where such medication has been prescribed for the claimant by a registered medical practitioner treating the claimant.”.

From : www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3096/regulation/3/made


It is actually theoretically possible to score 201 points and still only be in The WRAG.

In reality the assessment will cease as soon as the claimant scores the minimum requisite 15 points for LCW.

WRAG (LCW) Activities. (Descriptors)

1. (b) 9 Points.
2. (b) 9 Points.
3. (b) 9 Points.
4. (b) 9 Points.
5. (b) 15 Points.
6. (b) 15 Points.
7. (b) 15 Points.
8. (a) 15 Points.
9. (a) 15 Points.
10. (a) 15 Points.
11. (b) 9 Points.
12. (b) 9 Points.
13. (b) 9 Points.
14. (b) 9 Points.
15. (a) 15 Points.
16. (b) 9 Points.
17. (b) 15 Points.
Total = 201 Points.

There are in fact two separate tests carried out in the same ESA WC Assessment.

They first test looks at whether the claimant can score the requisite minimum 15 points across the WRAG Schedule 2 Functional Descriptors, if not, they look at ESA Reg 29.

Once the claimant has been assessed as having LCW via the functional descriptors or ESA Reg 29, they are then assessed to see whether they also have LCWRA by fulfilling at least one of the : The SG (LCWRA)Functional Schedule 3 Descriptors

Or, if not under those, via : ESA Reg 35 for entry to The SG (LCWRA)

PLUS Post 28/01/13 Amendment of :

(3) In regulation 35(1) (certain claimants to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity)(6), for sub-paragraph (b) substitute—

“(b)the claimant is-

(i)receiving treatment for cancer by way of chemotherapy or radiotherapy;

(ii)likely to receive such treatment within six months after the date of the determination of capability for work-related activity; or

(iii)recovering from such treatment,

and the Secretary of State is satisfied that the claimant should be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity; or”.

From : www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3096/regulation/4/made

Although The SG Functional Schedule 3 Descriptors are not points based, some but not all of them correspond to some of The WRAG Descriptors that score the maximum 15 points.

Hope this helps.

bro58

Before this topic closes........
IM BLOODY GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE HARD WORK THE MODS DO FOR THIS SITE.

bro58 wrote: Hi Mh,

I thought that our : ESA Claims Guides (3rd & 4th links down the page) clarified things quite well.

I came on this site as a member knowing nothing at all about ESA some 4-5 years ago, and found them easy to understand with a little input from the Mods at that time.

Please understand, Mods will not enter into discussions regarding how the site operates or how clear our guides are.

That is within the remit of the site owner who compiles the guides.

There are now only 3 Mods, all with their own medical conditions and personal issues to deal with. There were 7-8 when I first joined and the Discussion Forum was open.

It is sometimes a struggle for us to operate under current time constraints never mind expanding the forum remit.

Remember, every post has to be read and approved by a Mod before it shows up on the forum.

We did have a members survey some months ago, and the vast majority of our members wanted the forum to remain as is, i.e. all posts having to be pre-approved, and were very happy with the way it operates.

In my 4-5 years as a Mod, I can remember no more than 7-8 members who have been unhappy with how we operate.

To put it simply, if the site opening hours where to be extended, or the remit extended, I for one would not be able to contribute, and I believe that the other Mods would feel likewise.

There would then not be a forum at all !!!

I would ask our members to have a little bit of consideration for the Mods.

To reiterate, we are volunteers, and Moderate ex-gratia !!

Of course. if any of our members feel that they can offer the time and commitment needed to become a Mod, they are most welcome to contact Steve, who has the final say. (After consulting us)

Hi Bro58

If you think I have a problem with the mods on this forum, then there has been a misunderstanding. My post was an offered in support of the mods by saying that I thought that normal members were posting their experiences and I had never had a problem posting my thoughts..

"I'm just a member and have been posting a little lately purely because I am caught up in the whole appeal process and it is all fresh in my mind and I am researching heavily to get my appeal in. All my posts here have been allowed on the forum. I'm no expert but I can also see other normal members posting experience too."

Millhouse wrote:

bro58 wrote: Hi Mh,

I thought that our : ESA Claims Guides (3rd & 4th links down the page) clarified things quite well.

I came on this site as a member knowing nothing at all about ESA some 4-5 years ago, and found them easy to understand with a little input from the Mods at that time.

Please understand, Mods will not enter into discussions regarding how the site operates or how clear our guides are.

That is within the remit of the site owner who compiles the guides.

There are now only 3 Mods, all with their own medical conditions and personal issues to deal with. There were 7-8 when I first joined and the Discussion Forum was open.

It is sometimes a struggle for us to operate under current time constraints never mind expanding the forum remit.

Remember, every post has to be read and approved by a Mod before it shows up on the forum.

We did have a members survey some months ago, and the vast majority of our members wanted the forum to remain as is, i.e. all posts having to be pre-approved, and were very happy with the way it operates.

In my 4-5 years as a Mod, I can remember no more than 7-8 members who have been unhappy with how we operate.

To put it simply, if the site opening hours where to be extended, or the remit extended, I for one would not be able to contribute, and I believe that the other Mods would feel likewise.

There would then not be a forum at all !!!

I would ask our members to have a little bit of consideration for the Mods.

To reiterate, we are volunteers, and Moderate ex-gratia !!

Of course. if any of our members feel that they can offer the time and commitment needed to become a Mod, they are most welcome to contact Steve, who has the final say. (After consulting us)

Hi Bro58

If you think I have a problem with the mods on this forum, then there has been a misunderstanding. My post was an offered in support of the mods by saying that I thought that normal members were posting their experiences and I had never had a problem posting my thoughts..

"I'm just a member and have been posting a little lately purely because I am caught up in the whole appeal process and it is all fresh in my mind and I am researching heavily to get my appeal in. All my posts here have been allowed on the forum. I'm no expert but I can also see other normal members posting experience too."

Don't worry Mh,

I am not "having a go" at any particular individual !!

We don't do that !!!

My comments were to try and clarify to all viewing members how the forum and Mods operate.

We find that we have to clarify things from time to time.

I honestly think that some members think that the 3 Mods are sitting in some office surrounded by reference books and databases with a hotline to The DWP !!!

In reality, we are just 3 ex-members sitting at home sometimes in bed with our laptops/tablets on our knees !!

B&W helped us, so we take the time to research "Benefit Issues" in an attempt to help other members.

There was many a time in the past when the forum was open 24/7, and we were responding to more than 100 posts/day more than 1000/week, when I have got Spag Bol on my keyboard through eating whilst answering posts !!

That's my "cred" out of the window !!!

I can assure you that there are "no broken bones" with respect to anyone !

bro58