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PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
- jim555
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5 years 3 months ago #242465 by jim555
PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling was created by jim555
I am seeking any help or advice anyone can give me please. I am currently wanting to prepare and submit my tribunal appeal but am struggling to find any help with proving my arguments, making reference to the MH court case ruling, the majority of the time aspect and how i dispute the mobility descriptor i was awarded 1e and how to challenge that descriptor and be awarded 1f. The difference between standard and enhanced mobility. I prepared my MR without much help, decision not changed even though lots of evidence submitted. Can anyone help me build up my confidence, give any guidance or advice please/ 18th Jan is my appeal deadline date. Please help if you can, thanks in advance
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5 years 3 months ago #242474 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
James
Our PIP Appeal guide are on the following
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
If your appeal is on the 18th then any submission you intend to make will need to be with the Tribunal Service by the end of this week, they may accept Monday but you risk your submission being excluded or the hearing adjourned to a later date.
Your main problem will be that Descriptors (e) and (f) are considered to be mutually exclusive of each other, in other words, you cannot argue that you meet (f) without fundamentally undermining the reasons that you have been awarded (e) and therefore risk receiving no points for Mobility although the Judge in charge of your hearing must warn you if this is a possibility so you can withdraw your appeal.
Your current award is based on the fact that you cannot leave your home without suffering overwhelming psychological distress.
The current legal situation is that your ability to follow a route (f) cannot be assessed if you are unable to go out and by definition, if you are having problems following a route then you must have left your home.
Gordon
Our PIP Appeal guide are on the following
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
If your appeal is on the 18th then any submission you intend to make will need to be with the Tribunal Service by the end of this week, they may accept Monday but you risk your submission being excluded or the hearing adjourned to a later date.
Your main problem will be that Descriptors (e) and (f) are considered to be mutually exclusive of each other, in other words, you cannot argue that you meet (f) without fundamentally undermining the reasons that you have been awarded (e) and therefore risk receiving no points for Mobility although the Judge in charge of your hearing must warn you if this is a possibility so you can withdraw your appeal.
Your current award is based on the fact that you cannot leave your home without suffering overwhelming psychological distress.
The current legal situation is that your ability to follow a route (f) cannot be assessed if you are unable to go out and by definition, if you are having problems following a route then you must have left your home.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: jim555
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- jim555
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5 years 3 months ago #242484 by jim555
Replied by jim555 on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Gordon, thank you so much for taking time to reply to me! It's the first helpful piece of information I have managed to receive till this point. I got my MR decision letter dated 18th December so i assume i have until the 18th January to submit my request to appeal the decision?
So, If I may can I give you a little more detail to my circumstances?
I received enhanced rate daily living and standard rate mobility when being moved from DLA onto PIP but I had to apply for PIP. I was given a home visit, supported by my former GP based on my challenges I face leaving my home and going out to meet new people/ strangers. I suffer from OCD, Anxiety, Depression and Misophonia.
In my PA4 report it is detailed than i rarely leave the house and only go to therapy or doctors appointments with my partner who is also my carer... I also make reference to never leaving my home unless in an emergency or for medical appointments in my initial pip claim form. Obviously at the time the 1e was the best suited descriptor as 1f was not available due to the wording other than psychological distress. Importantly I did make reference both in the PA4 form i obtained and the initial claim form that when i did go out, i did always need help from another person when going out on journeys to help reduce or avoid the overwhelming mental distress etc etc. So the references to needing assistance from another person are present just not elaborated on and kind of dismissed as the 1f descriptor was never applicable to me at the time.
Part of my ongoing therapy and treatment i was seeking shortly before and after my award may 2017 was to challenge my fears more, try and get out the home more etc. obviously in order for me to achieve or attempt this i needed the physical and emotional assistance from my partner to help make these thoughts become a reality.. I have three children so with my partners support, joining them all going to the local park etc to watch them play was another example of journeys I managed along with accompanying her on school runs. visiting family members etc.
Over time i have had ups and downs, some bad weeks and some good. im finding proving the majority of days element difficult back in 2017 as i don't have a daily mobility record of each day. saying that i don't for 2018 and only very limited for the end of 2019.
Can i be awarded 1f from a recent date or does it have to be back the the date the original award was given and then fully backdated? does a partial backdate ever get awarded?
Esther McVey gave a promise no one will have their benefits reduced as part of this review.. does this still apply to claimants appealing at tribunal? Also as this is specifically relating to mobility and MH court case am I safe with my daily living award not being disputed?
I have a supporting letter from my current GP stating I need help from my partner to leave the house and attend treatment and medical appointments and the ability to leave the house is an important one to help maintain my mental health and well being.
I also have letter from nhs making reference to me requesting home visits but also needing help from my partner to attend appointments. My Carer/Partner has also wrote a supporting letter detailing the help she provides me to get out the house and how i wouldn't go out if she wasn't there supporting me physically and emotionally etc etc.
So i do feel like i am torn in between the two descriptors.. if two descriptors apply equally then the highest scoring descriptor should be awarded, right?
Can you help me more with the mutually exclusive point you raised and the reference to the difficulty in law part you mentioned? I just dont quite get what you mean by it or what the possible implications are with what you say?
I have contacted Duncan Lewis solicitors but they want around 2k to help me. Just not affordable especially as I am not certain I will win the appeal.
Do you have any more advice for me after more information? Really appreciate your time,
James
So, If I may can I give you a little more detail to my circumstances?
I received enhanced rate daily living and standard rate mobility when being moved from DLA onto PIP but I had to apply for PIP. I was given a home visit, supported by my former GP based on my challenges I face leaving my home and going out to meet new people/ strangers. I suffer from OCD, Anxiety, Depression and Misophonia.
In my PA4 report it is detailed than i rarely leave the house and only go to therapy or doctors appointments with my partner who is also my carer... I also make reference to never leaving my home unless in an emergency or for medical appointments in my initial pip claim form. Obviously at the time the 1e was the best suited descriptor as 1f was not available due to the wording other than psychological distress. Importantly I did make reference both in the PA4 form i obtained and the initial claim form that when i did go out, i did always need help from another person when going out on journeys to help reduce or avoid the overwhelming mental distress etc etc. So the references to needing assistance from another person are present just not elaborated on and kind of dismissed as the 1f descriptor was never applicable to me at the time.
Part of my ongoing therapy and treatment i was seeking shortly before and after my award may 2017 was to challenge my fears more, try and get out the home more etc. obviously in order for me to achieve or attempt this i needed the physical and emotional assistance from my partner to help make these thoughts become a reality.. I have three children so with my partners support, joining them all going to the local park etc to watch them play was another example of journeys I managed along with accompanying her on school runs. visiting family members etc.
Over time i have had ups and downs, some bad weeks and some good. im finding proving the majority of days element difficult back in 2017 as i don't have a daily mobility record of each day. saying that i don't for 2018 and only very limited for the end of 2019.
Can i be awarded 1f from a recent date or does it have to be back the the date the original award was given and then fully backdated? does a partial backdate ever get awarded?
Esther McVey gave a promise no one will have their benefits reduced as part of this review.. does this still apply to claimants appealing at tribunal? Also as this is specifically relating to mobility and MH court case am I safe with my daily living award not being disputed?
I have a supporting letter from my current GP stating I need help from my partner to leave the house and attend treatment and medical appointments and the ability to leave the house is an important one to help maintain my mental health and well being.
I also have letter from nhs making reference to me requesting home visits but also needing help from my partner to attend appointments. My Carer/Partner has also wrote a supporting letter detailing the help she provides me to get out the house and how i wouldn't go out if she wasn't there supporting me physically and emotionally etc etc.
So i do feel like i am torn in between the two descriptors.. if two descriptors apply equally then the highest scoring descriptor should be awarded, right?
Can you help me more with the mutually exclusive point you raised and the reference to the difficulty in law part you mentioned? I just dont quite get what you mean by it or what the possible implications are with what you say?
I have contacted Duncan Lewis solicitors but they want around 2k to help me. Just not affordable especially as I am not certain I will win the appeal.
Do you have any more advice for me after more information? Really appreciate your time,
James
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5 years 3 months ago #242485 by jim555
Replied by jim555 on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
so just to clarify, my MR is based around the fact that i satisfy descriptor 1f on the majority of days opposed to/ over the descriptor 1e on the majority of days. is that not possible to satisfy at tribunal? The main grey area is i satisfied 1e at time of award, evidence supports that but in time, i have undertook journeys with the support of another person on the majority of days... then the wording changed on the descriptors and I felt i satisfied the 1f more than the 1e descriptor.
I have recent evidence to support me satisfying 1f descriptor now but i am confused how i prove the majority of days aspect on both descriptors as i dont have a daily record of my mobility activities back to 2017. Do i have a chance winning my appeal or should i just give up now?
When i heard the news on the MH court ruling i had a gut instinct the judgment would apply to my claim but was so disappointed with them not awarding me 1f after waiting years for them to review my claim, I felt i had to challenge their review and seek justice.
I am sure I heard claimants would move from standard rate to enhanced as well as claimants with no award, given standard rate award as a result of the ruling and pending review..?
Am i close to the mark, or way off? any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Just doesn't add up to me, i think 1e should be worth 12 points as well as 1f.
I have recent evidence to support me satisfying 1f descriptor now but i am confused how i prove the majority of days aspect on both descriptors as i dont have a daily record of my mobility activities back to 2017. Do i have a chance winning my appeal or should i just give up now?
When i heard the news on the MH court ruling i had a gut instinct the judgment would apply to my claim but was so disappointed with them not awarding me 1f after waiting years for them to review my claim, I felt i had to challenge their review and seek justice.
I am sure I heard claimants would move from standard rate to enhanced as well as claimants with no award, given standard rate award as a result of the ruling and pending review..?
Am i close to the mark, or way off? any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Just doesn't add up to me, i think 1e should be worth 12 points as well as 1f.
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5 years 3 months ago #242489 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
James
There are several things in your post that are confusing me so could you answer the following before I attempt to answer your questions?
When was the Decision that you are appealing made?
Was the Decision part of the review of PIP Mobility awards or was it a reassessment of your claim?
Just to confirm, you have not yet requested your appeal and have until 18 January to do so?
Gordon
There are several things in your post that are confusing me so could you answer the following before I attempt to answer your questions?
When was the Decision that you are appealing made?
Was the Decision part of the review of PIP Mobility awards or was it a reassessment of your claim?
Just to confirm, you have not yet requested your appeal and have until 18 January to do so?
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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5 years 3 months ago #242493 by jim555
Replied by jim555 on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Apologies if I am not very clear. That's right, i have until the 18th Jan to submit my appeal to tribunal after receiving my MR decision on 18th Dec. I was awarded my PIP in may 2017. MH court case ruling was made around feb 2018 i believe and i was waiting for my award to be looked at again automatically as i believed I would be one of those claimants affected by the changes in PIP law/ wording removal of the reasons other than psychological distress. I never contacted PIP as the news was that if you are affected, you will be contacted, could take years, no one will have award reduced, they will make the right decisions on review, contact you if any additional info is required.. blah blah blah
they finally reviewed my mobility re MH AND RF court rulings, no change in award. I requested a MR, go the MR decision 12th Dec no change to award. Detail in decision was limited but made reference to agreeing with original award 1e made in 2017, kind of agree with recent evidence satisfying descriptor 1f with recent evidence supporting 1f but dispute the majority of the time aspect to 1f descriptor.
hope the above helps a little.. Thanks
they finally reviewed my mobility re MH AND RF court rulings, no change in award. I requested a MR, go the MR decision 12th Dec no change to award. Detail in decision was limited but made reference to agreeing with original award 1e made in 2017, kind of agree with recent evidence satisfying descriptor 1f with recent evidence supporting 1f but dispute the majority of the time aspect to 1f descriptor.
hope the above helps a little.. Thanks
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