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Pip Telephone Assessment
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3 years 2 months ago #256354 by Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Catherine on topic Pip Telephone Assessment
Hi Daisydream,
First, you are not being a pain! Full stop!
In the DWP document ‘PIP assessment guide part 1: the assessment process’ it states on page 20 link here if you are interested.
1.6.5 Before starting the consultation, the HP should read the claimant questionnaire and all other evidence on file. It is also recommended that the HPs could also consult with clinical coaches or other experts prior to the face-to-face assessment for advice and support on how conditions present and how this might affect function.
Now this document is guidance rather than law, but the fact that you assessor (known as the HP or Health Professional in this document) did not do this, means that they fell below the DWP guideline standards.
When you get your PA4 I would advise you to look for what qualifications your assessor had - i.e. where they a physio, a nurse etc. Would they be likely to have adequate information about your condition to know how it might affect you without additional research prior to the assessment.
If I was writing your letter of complaint I would quote this official guidance.
Wishing you success
Catherine
First, you are not being a pain! Full stop!
In the DWP document ‘PIP assessment guide part 1: the assessment process’ it states on page 20 link here if you are interested.
1.6.5 Before starting the consultation, the HP should read the claimant questionnaire and all other evidence on file. It is also recommended that the HPs could also consult with clinical coaches or other experts prior to the face-to-face assessment for advice and support on how conditions present and how this might affect function.
Now this document is guidance rather than law, but the fact that you assessor (known as the HP or Health Professional in this document) did not do this, means that they fell below the DWP guideline standards.
When you get your PA4 I would advise you to look for what qualifications your assessor had - i.e. where they a physio, a nurse etc. Would they be likely to have adequate information about your condition to know how it might affect you without additional research prior to the assessment.
If I was writing your letter of complaint I would quote this official guidance.
Wishing you success
Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Daisydream
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3 years 1 month ago #256518 by Daisydream
Replied by Daisydream on topic Pip Telephone Assessment
Hi Catherine
I have done as you suggested:
1. Phoned Motability advising of the MR
2. Phoned DWP requesting an MR
Requested copy of H/P report
Also requested a copy of how the Decision Maker came to
their conclusion. Was told they spoke to DM and they have
not got reasonings of how they came to this conclusion
apart from what’s in the letter. All that’s in the letter is ‘I have decided you can do these things etc etc.
Finally I am in the process of drafting a letter of complaint to
the DWP but needed your advice:
1. Do I also send the same letter to Capita to complain?
2. Also should I ask my MP to help me and hopefully
support my complaint.
3. Also what exactly should I include in the letter.
Once again many thanks for all your help.
Daisydream
I have done as you suggested:
1. Phoned Motability advising of the MR
2. Phoned DWP requesting an MR
Requested copy of H/P report
Also requested a copy of how the Decision Maker came to
their conclusion. Was told they spoke to DM and they have
not got reasonings of how they came to this conclusion
apart from what’s in the letter. All that’s in the letter is ‘I have decided you can do these things etc etc.
Finally I am in the process of drafting a letter of complaint to
the DWP but needed your advice:
1. Do I also send the same letter to Capita to complain?
2. Also should I ask my MP to help me and hopefully
support my complaint.
3. Also what exactly should I include in the letter.
Once again many thanks for all your help.
Daisydream
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- Catherine
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3 years 1 month ago - 3 years 1 month ago #256529 by Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Catherine on topic Pip Telephone Assessment
Hi Daisydream,
First of all please award yourself a gold star! If there was any fairness your diligence would earn you a few extra points!
Personally, I would not bother writing to Capita, the people who are ultimately responsible for the service you received, or did not receive in this case, was the DWP, not Capita. I am sure they will forward a copy of your letter to Capita to ask them for comments as part of their investigative process.
I think it is an excellent idea to inform your MP of what happened to you. The more they know about the service the better.
When thinking about your letter of complaint you need to decide what outcome you desire. Is it that you want the assessor to be reprimanded for poor professional behaviour and possibly issue an apology for not carrying out the recommended procedure? Do you wish to claim that the poor conduct of the assessor probably led to a poor recommendation which is causing you undue stress and worry, and request that they minimise your suffering by expediting your MR? Is there anything else you would like them to do, remembering of course that they can’t simply give you your extra points.
So, you start by describing what happened, then use the quote I gave you to show that the assessor failed to comply the DWP’s guidelines, then talk about the impact this has had on you (and maybe others?) and finally say what you would like to happen.
But as important as it is for the community of people who are assessed for benefits that complaints are made and assessors are held accountable, the most important thing right now is preparing your MR. Do read our guides on Mandatory Reconsiderations they are here – you have to scroll down a bit and get to the heading PIP appeals.
… and please come back to us if you have any more questions.
Catherine
First of all please award yourself a gold star! If there was any fairness your diligence would earn you a few extra points!
Personally, I would not bother writing to Capita, the people who are ultimately responsible for the service you received, or did not receive in this case, was the DWP, not Capita. I am sure they will forward a copy of your letter to Capita to ask them for comments as part of their investigative process.
I think it is an excellent idea to inform your MP of what happened to you. The more they know about the service the better.
When thinking about your letter of complaint you need to decide what outcome you desire. Is it that you want the assessor to be reprimanded for poor professional behaviour and possibly issue an apology for not carrying out the recommended procedure? Do you wish to claim that the poor conduct of the assessor probably led to a poor recommendation which is causing you undue stress and worry, and request that they minimise your suffering by expediting your MR? Is there anything else you would like them to do, remembering of course that they can’t simply give you your extra points.
So, you start by describing what happened, then use the quote I gave you to show that the assessor failed to comply the DWP’s guidelines, then talk about the impact this has had on you (and maybe others?) and finally say what you would like to happen.
But as important as it is for the community of people who are assessed for benefits that complaints are made and assessors are held accountable, the most important thing right now is preparing your MR. Do read our guides on Mandatory Reconsiderations they are here – you have to scroll down a bit and get to the heading PIP appeals.
… and please come back to us if you have any more questions.
Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 years 1 month ago by Catherine.
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3 years 1 month ago #256562 by Daisydream
Replied by Daisydream on topic Pip Telephone Assessment
Hi Catherine
1. Firstly I think I have been unfairly treated by Capita who allowed their H/P to conduct my telephone assessment - ‘’blind’’.
2. Secondly - Capita did not follow the DWP guidlines - they should be adhering to these rules on each and every occasion (am I correct in saying this)?
3. Obviously I am extremely horrified that Capita are allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour - Capita are employed by the government to assess people in a fair manner and should on each and every occasion follow the DWP set of guidlines as you suggested and should not deviate from these guidlines whatsover - they should be held accountable for this by the government.
1. I have done as you suggested telephoned the DWP and requested MR, copy of H/P report also I asked for a copy of the DM report their reasonings of how and why they came to this conclusion - basically why did they reduced my mobility planning a journey section of it from previously 4 (for the last 15 years or so) to now been awarded 0 - resulting in basically loosing my car.
2. Got a call back from DWP confirming they had emailed the DM and they had replied stating - they have no other written explanation to give me other than what is actually in my Decision Letter. Unfortunately they have not supplied me with any explanation in my letter other than stating - ‘’I changed the descriptors previously chosen based on medical evidence ‘’ - this is in no way an explanation in my opinion.
3. Having requested all of the above by telephone I am now in the process of drafting a letter to the DWP confirming my requests as you suggested (as things do go astray) that is why over the years I send all my documents by the Postal - Signed For Service.
( What I need to know is am I right in thinking if requested they should supply me with an explanation of their reasonings as to how and why they came to this conclusion and not just disregard my request?
I need the use of my Motability vehicle (otherwise I am totally housebound).
Sorry for rambling on so much.
Your advise in invaluable.
Thanks again.
Daisydream
1. Firstly I think I have been unfairly treated by Capita who allowed their H/P to conduct my telephone assessment - ‘’blind’’.
2. Secondly - Capita did not follow the DWP guidlines - they should be adhering to these rules on each and every occasion (am I correct in saying this)?
3. Obviously I am extremely horrified that Capita are allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour - Capita are employed by the government to assess people in a fair manner and should on each and every occasion follow the DWP set of guidlines as you suggested and should not deviate from these guidlines whatsover - they should be held accountable for this by the government.
1. I have done as you suggested telephoned the DWP and requested MR, copy of H/P report also I asked for a copy of the DM report their reasonings of how and why they came to this conclusion - basically why did they reduced my mobility planning a journey section of it from previously 4 (for the last 15 years or so) to now been awarded 0 - resulting in basically loosing my car.
2. Got a call back from DWP confirming they had emailed the DM and they had replied stating - they have no other written explanation to give me other than what is actually in my Decision Letter. Unfortunately they have not supplied me with any explanation in my letter other than stating - ‘’I changed the descriptors previously chosen based on medical evidence ‘’ - this is in no way an explanation in my opinion.
3. Having requested all of the above by telephone I am now in the process of drafting a letter to the DWP confirming my requests as you suggested (as things do go astray) that is why over the years I send all my documents by the Postal - Signed For Service.
( What I need to know is am I right in thinking if requested they should supply me with an explanation of their reasonings as to how and why they came to this conclusion and not just disregard my request?
I need the use of my Motability vehicle (otherwise I am totally housebound).
Sorry for rambling on so much.
Your advise in invaluable.
Thanks again.
Daisydream
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3 years 1 month ago #256575 by Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Catherine on topic Pip Telephone Assessment
Hi Daisydream,
I think when you receive the PA4 you will find that will give you what you are seeking. It is quite a long and detailed form completed by the assessor together with their recommendations. It is usual for the DM to follow these recommendations, if however they have not, that is your time to press for an explanation.
(This is why you see us twittering on so much about the PA4.)
We do at least to some extent appreciate what you are going through, are pleased to be able to help, and remain here for you,
Catherine
I think when you receive the PA4 you will find that will give you what you are seeking. It is quite a long and detailed form completed by the assessor together with their recommendations. It is usual for the DM to follow these recommendations, if however they have not, that is your time to press for an explanation.
(This is why you see us twittering on so much about the PA4.)
We do at least to some extent appreciate what you are going through, are pleased to be able to help, and remain here for you,
Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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3 years 1 month ago #256673 by Daisydream
Replied by Daisydream on topic Pip Telephone Assessment
I have now received my PA4, just briefly looking through it I can see numerous discrepancies, for instance: HP wrote that I no longer report to be taking Naproxen and that my prescription list has not changed since the last review. I have checked both my copies of pip review forms the 2014 & 2020 one and neither one had Naproxen on my prescription list.
Also since the 2014 prescription list, there are now another 2 additional items listed on my current prescription.
The evidence the HP has listed that they had considered. (Bearing in mind that during the actual telephone assessment she had not even seen my file and going in ‘’Blind’’. They have listed 23 separate documents going far back as a Disability Letter dated 4.3.1997, various GP letters that do not correspond to my copies of GP letters that I keep on file and I keep each and everyone in order.
My questions are:
Am I allowed to ask the DWP for all copies listed that I cant identify. Also she has used the 2014 PA4, can I request this report or is it too late.
No. 14 was listed as 21.07.2014 CQ - what is a CQ??
No. 15 listed as 19.11.2014 PA4
No. 16 listed as 19.11.2014 PA4 (1b,2a,3a 4e,5b,6b,7a,8a,9a,
10a,11b,12c
Are 15 and 16 - 2 separate documents
No. 17 & 18 both listed as 25.09.2014 PA1 - what is a PA1 and again would this be 2 separate documents?
Also a Pip letter dated 18.9.2018 (which I have got this copy).
It’s a letter I received from pip in September 2018 advising
me that I had been paper based (due to the new law in the planning a journey section of it) and basically it was a letter confirming because of this new law they had looked at my claim again and decided that my award was not affected and is still correct.
I am at a loss as to what has changed, my condition has not improved in fact I now have added problems with my mobility due to osteoarthritis of my knees.
I believe because of the failings of the HP;
1. Not following the DWP guidelines
2. During the telephone assessment HP gave me 3
different versions of why she had not seen my file.
The whole process has been very confusing , thus
resulting in me loosing the Enhanced mobility section.
3 I believe the HP did not have sufficient understanding
and experience in the matters of ME and Lumbar spine
Degeneration.
4. ME is a condition that has a debilitating affect it means
that I suffer continually from a fluctuation of extreme chronic long term fatigue, exhaustion and numerous other
symptoms.
5. HP has not considered the unpredictability, fluctuation of the condition. She has said I can do everything on the majority of days when I quite clearly told the HP that I could not and not only that I told the HP on majority of days I am housebound if not bed-bound.
6. She did not ask me relevant questions - she asked me, did I go to main stream school, did I pass my exams? (Bearing in mind I am a 60 yr old woman) What has this to do with the here and now?
7. When I tried to get my point over she would dismiss me and carry on to her next question so quickly.
I took your advice and been in touch with 2 MP’s and my local councillor by email explaining the situation and awaiting their reply.
Yet again Catherine very sorry for being a pain but your advise on how I move forward would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Daisydream
Also since the 2014 prescription list, there are now another 2 additional items listed on my current prescription.
The evidence the HP has listed that they had considered. (Bearing in mind that during the actual telephone assessment she had not even seen my file and going in ‘’Blind’’. They have listed 23 separate documents going far back as a Disability Letter dated 4.3.1997, various GP letters that do not correspond to my copies of GP letters that I keep on file and I keep each and everyone in order.
My questions are:
Am I allowed to ask the DWP for all copies listed that I cant identify. Also she has used the 2014 PA4, can I request this report or is it too late.
No. 14 was listed as 21.07.2014 CQ - what is a CQ??
No. 15 listed as 19.11.2014 PA4
No. 16 listed as 19.11.2014 PA4 (1b,2a,3a 4e,5b,6b,7a,8a,9a,
10a,11b,12c
Are 15 and 16 - 2 separate documents
No. 17 & 18 both listed as 25.09.2014 PA1 - what is a PA1 and again would this be 2 separate documents?
Also a Pip letter dated 18.9.2018 (which I have got this copy).
It’s a letter I received from pip in September 2018 advising
me that I had been paper based (due to the new law in the planning a journey section of it) and basically it was a letter confirming because of this new law they had looked at my claim again and decided that my award was not affected and is still correct.
I am at a loss as to what has changed, my condition has not improved in fact I now have added problems with my mobility due to osteoarthritis of my knees.
I believe because of the failings of the HP;
1. Not following the DWP guidelines
2. During the telephone assessment HP gave me 3
different versions of why she had not seen my file.
The whole process has been very confusing , thus
resulting in me loosing the Enhanced mobility section.
3 I believe the HP did not have sufficient understanding
and experience in the matters of ME and Lumbar spine
Degeneration.
4. ME is a condition that has a debilitating affect it means
that I suffer continually from a fluctuation of extreme chronic long term fatigue, exhaustion and numerous other
symptoms.
5. HP has not considered the unpredictability, fluctuation of the condition. She has said I can do everything on the majority of days when I quite clearly told the HP that I could not and not only that I told the HP on majority of days I am housebound if not bed-bound.
6. She did not ask me relevant questions - she asked me, did I go to main stream school, did I pass my exams? (Bearing in mind I am a 60 yr old woman) What has this to do with the here and now?
7. When I tried to get my point over she would dismiss me and carry on to her next question so quickly.
I took your advice and been in touch with 2 MP’s and my local councillor by email explaining the situation and awaiting their reply.
Yet again Catherine very sorry for being a pain but your advise on how I move forward would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Daisydream
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