Andy Burnham, a potential next prime minister if he wins the Makerfield byelection, has told the Times newspaper that he would not be squeamish about reducing the welfare bill.  However, he ruled out  “crude” short-term cuts, instead pointing to long-term plans to “support people into work”.

In the interview last week, [paywall] Burnham said that ““I am not squeamish about saying that the plan would be to reduce the welfare bill. Not at all.”

But he added “It is not the traditional Westminster way of just crude cuts, short-term cuts that then create a backlash and create more political turbulence. It is actually going to do things that will reduce the benefits bill, moving towards a more preventative state that makes the right investments to support people into work.”

He said he was in favour of increased funding for defence but “I would say it’s defence and security but also resilience.”

“We do not have a preventative, productive, growth-enabling state. We are doing the opposite. We end up dealing with crises and spending huge amounts of money supporting people in a crisis situation rather than into much, much earlier intervention to a more positive outcome.”

Burnham agreed with the Milburn report that it was wrong that for every £25 spent on benefits for young people, only £1 was spent on employment support.

One of the things he would change, he said, would be to insist that government defence  procurement contracts would include social value, such as apprenticeships and work placements.

“To me the fact that Britain has not had a very strong intentional approach to British procurement is crazy. As Mayor of Greater Manchester, I have deliberately fought against the system to have our buses built in Falkirk and Ballymena. I see other contracts going off to China.”

Burnham’s remarks have caused wide concern amongst claimants that he may be ready to support wider cuts to benefits, although he failed to address the issue of the possible linking of PIP to work, alluded to in the Milburn report.

 

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 days ago
    🤦🏼‍♂️. It's about time PIP and not working stopped being linked. PIP is not and never has been means tested so it doesn't matter if you work or not you still get it paid as it's support for costs of suffering with long term disability 
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    · 12 days ago
    Guess what talking about getting ppl into work when every shop closing down can't afford rents , where are the jobs anymore idiot
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    · 13 days ago
    Problem with employment support spending is it usually gets very little results so is just wasted money.

    I think the only method that would have half a chance of is paying the NHS to actually treat and diagnose people out of DWP budget, and paying employers to employ unhealthy people.

    Anything else is just serving to satisfy people with resentment with no real end result.
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      · 8 days ago
      @cc Need to stop big Pharma from riping off the NHS as a prescription may only be £12 per item but NHS loses huge amounts of money charging that little
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      · 11 days ago
      @cc unfortunately it's not as easy as you think because some illnesses cannot be cured by modern medicines such as respiratory illnesses like asthma which is a life threatening illness and other illnesses as well we are still a long way off yet 
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      · 12 days ago
      @Fibromyalgia warrior I am the same but with advanced peripheral neuropathy and no cure. I depend on my PIP help although on the lowest, it helps pay for my car fuel. Without it I wouldn’t be able to get out as I am rural Norfolk.  I should be on the higher amount but my review was gas lighted, lied and I was denied what I was entitled too just like another claimant on here.  I was also told if I couldn’t prep meals, I could have microwave meals, how disgusting was that comment.  Because I could add and subtract my point score was put low same as if I can understand a satnav low points again. What the hell is this to do with pain and suffering and unable to walk properly and some days not at all but it can’t be sometimes and it can’t be “not properly “ it has to be not at all always.  As the other claimant pointed out if they were to have what I have it would be a different story.  
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      · 13 days ago
      @cc Uninformed and limited view. Oh let's pick on the sick people.  Karma is real, you would see the other side if you had what I have. Before you attack me, I actually have a job but am deemed too unwell to do it, and there is no cure 
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    · 15 days ago
    Benefits and Work - could you please use less dramatic/media type intros in your newsletters? I don't know if this is a way to get more subscriptions, but you already have a huge motivator for us to subscribe (thanks to the govt) without writing dramatic newsletters! 

    For someone like myself who has severe anxiety, I get the same complex reactions reading your newletters as if I am reading a BBC article!!! Please give your more balanced information, based on the facts. This Andy Burnham thing is a perfect example. We are stuck between a rock and a cliff drop hard place! Andy Burnham vs Starmer/Reform. Please don't bring us 3 cliff drop hard places!!! Yes he has been elected as an MP, I hope he has a chance of becoming Prime Minister, if we have a chance of keeping Reform out. We have the Labour backbenchers on our side to have a good and proper benefit reform that is absolutely needed, not what is going on right now. 

    I already subscribed to you for what I couldn't find around PIP (I had gone through a traumatic assessment process with a nurse who lied, gas-lighted and denied me of what I was entitled to.(I am a 'lucky' one who at least was awarded basic living PIP which pays for my trauma therapy.) 

    The process damaged my mental health further and is affecting my health recovery. It has also meant, I have used my savings to live on, with only partial UC until this year, I have worked all of my life until 60 and my mental health crashed. My pension pot was fully paid and i have been treated like sh*t in the assessment process. If I had not had to go through a traumatic process, I may be back in work by now. I had even been put through to the assessment without filling in the PIP form after many months of trying as my cognitive function was so affected by my anixieties caused by unresolved childhood trauma. I had gone through the ESA assessment the year before and the difference in assessment is night and day. The nurse who assessed me for ESA was wonderful and was able to get a full picture of my mental health. I was unable to go through an appeal process due the the damage done by this first assessment. 

    I am due my review this coming January and like others had heard nothing. I just found the Govt One Login website to get proof of PIP and downloaded my proof of PIP letter. It shows I have had it extended by 18 months and yet in true govt style, they have left me with financial uncertainty and using my therapy sessions to get support for how I would manage without my therapist. This whole fiasco is abuse by the british govt, no different to the asylums and institutions of our past!! They should be ashamed of themselves and are as disgusting as any other abuser of vulnerable people. I want others who are awaiting a PIP review to know of this way of finding updates on their awards. Please spread the word.
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      · 12 days ago
      @healthyme My wife has anxiety but still drags her self into work as she has to she's a tough cookie 

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      · 14 days ago
      @Iggly Thanks for your reply @Iggly That is interesting and really making me think of their deeper values around people on benefits. 

      I will use this reply to also clarify my comment as towards the end I was struggling to focus and stay calm. It was obviously the second assessment ie the one for PIP that damaged my mental health further. 

      Also, to clarify. If anyone due to have their PIP reviewed and have not heard a 'dicky bird,' do create an account on Govt One Login and download proof of your PIP award. It will specify your start and review date. If this has been extended without them telling you, as they have done with me, you will see a new date! I will add this to  the forum also if I can learn how to post there.
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      · 14 days ago
      @healthyme Agreed, I've been on and off the site for a number of years and it feels like they have become much more hyperbolic in the past 2 years or so. Perhaps its trying to compete with the rest of the news doing the same but none of us need the stakes exaggerating, we already experience the weight of it without the hyperbole being necessary. 
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      · 14 days ago
      @healthyme Absolutely.  It's partly why I left the site last year.  
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      · 14 days ago
      @healthyme Thank you!
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    · 15 days ago
    There are over 4 million unemployed and about 800,000 jobs available if I recall correctly. So how the heck is that supposed to Balance out then?
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    · 16 days ago
    The Government are looking to ask Claimants to give up some of their Benefits in order for the Dwp too give claimants tailored support into work.
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      · 14 days ago
      @Neil (real one) and what happoens if you give part of your beneifits, but for whatever reason, you don't find work, employers don't want you? waht happens then? you're bust. this is a proposal that  relies on employers following the equality act, access to work happens, and,,,, that you actually get a job. the idea is totally unworkaible.
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      · 15 days ago
      @Neil (real one) We might have no choice eventually,just have too wait and see.
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      · 15 days ago
      @Dpb999 If it would be purely voluntary, that is counter to the narrative of removing perverse financial incentives. People would get less benefits if they chose to do the "right" thing.

      And given the high numbers on UC health in severe material deprivation, unable to adequately heat their homes in winter, food insecurity, reliant on food banks, in debt, reliant on financial help from family, etcetera. The idea lots of them are going to voluntarily take a benefit cut is really believing in the alternative fake reality of an overly generous benefits. 
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      · 15 days ago
      @Neil Not a chance in hell Are they getting anything from me 
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      · 15 days ago
      @Neil Worth noting that this would be a purely voluntary scheme, similar to motability where a portion of a willing claimant's benefits are replaced by tailored services, such as therapy or assistance towards work. 
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    · 16 days ago
    Pat Mcfadden says their wont be any changes in legislation until next year.
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      · 15 days ago
      @Neil Would prefer next decade personally.
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    · 17 days ago
    From Benefits & Work's news story "Claimants votes will count in Makerfield byelection"

    "Reform on benefits

    Back at the beginning of April, Farage announced that Reform would soon provide details of “the biggest cuts to the benefits bill ever seen in the history of this country".  Since then he has claimed that Reform’s plans are so radical they will cause “riots” and “strikes”.

    But the local elections have come and gone, the Makerfield byelection campaign is underway and Reform have still to give any details of their grand plan.

    But Reform have already announced three changes that will affect current claimants if they get into power:

    Stopping PIP for 80-90% of claimants with depression or anxiety.

    A crackdown on Motability, with Lee Anderson jeering that he would bring back the blue three-wheeler.

    Incentivising benefits assessors to fail claimants."
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 15 days ago
      @axab43 Sorry I misunderstood you.
      Thank you for your kind words.
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      · 16 days ago
      @Clockoholic Sorry, I did not mean that you came across as trying to downplay mental health conditions.  Some politicians have though, even Labour politicians, which is a bit horrifying.

      I have read even Reform say that their cuts would apply to minor depression/anxiety etc but I wouldn't trust them, or any politician.  At least Burnham sounds like he is looking at long term goals for Reform, and not short term shock cuts.

      I am sorry about your mother.  People have no idea how devastating severe mental illness can be or how it can ruin someone's life.
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      · 16 days ago
      @axab43 I couldn't agree more with what you said which is why I said "so-called mild conditions like anxiety and depression."

      Apologies if I came across as trying to downplay mental health conditions which wasn't my intention at all.

      I was just trying to make a point of how stupid potential cuts to benefits for mental health conditions would be from a cost perspective. i.e wouldn't save much and would probably cost more as the savings made from PIP cuts would shift to other departments e.g. NHS.

      Also, once they start on mental health condition cuts, would they move to physical conditions as well?

      (My late mother had such severe depression she developed pychosis as well so I know first hand how devastating depression can be.)


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      · 16 days ago
      @Clockoholic Also, mental health illnesses are very serious.  Severe depression can and does kill, as well as severe anxiety actually, which accounts for a lot of the suicide rates.

      The feel I get from Andy Burnham is totally different to the feeling from Reform. If we use ai chat to look up the most recent things he has said about welfare reforms, he is not interested just in cutting benefits but things like early intervention, which will cut the benefit bill by a lot.  So, long term reforms.  Again, a totally different feel than the Reform party.
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      · 16 days ago
      @John IMO for what it's worth I think Reform haven't given details of these cuts for two reasons.

       They didn't want to put people off voting for them at the Makerfield by-election by showing just how badly they would treat benefit claimants especially those claming PIP.

      They are fully aware that most people claim it legitimately and the rate of fraud for PIP is near zero.

      Secondly, I think they know if they slash PIP for so-called mild conditions like anxiety and depression it won't make much of a difference to the overall bill.

      So what is left to cut? Will they target Motor Neuron Disease, Paranoid Schitzoprhenia, stroke patients, dementia etc? The list goes on. 

      A lot of people with anxiety and depression have that diagnosis alongside other conditions as well, eg. someone might have Parkinson's disease and depression, so removing eligibility for depression shouldn't stop said person still claiming PIP for Parkinson's disease.

      As an added note, now Burnham has won the by-election with an increased majority for Labour, what now for us?

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    · 17 days ago
    I actually think Andy is right and will look in the right places for cuts. There are too many young people on welfare when,what they need is support in finding a job with lots of hands holding/counselling...and some job creation 
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      · 16 days ago
      @netcoach177 I didn't mention doctors i was thinking of starting lower down the pecking order.
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      · 16 days ago
      @TheLordProtector My sister works as a nurse in Exeter. It's 12 hour shifts, physically and emotionally demanding and (especially in the care sector) poorly paid. Not much of an incentive for youngsters to work. I am in favour of the reintroduction of working tax credits to boost income 
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      · 16 days ago
      @TheLordProtector Yes sure a 18 year old can just apply to be a doctor, ridiculous comment.
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      · 17 days ago
      @Camille Your right the youngsters need help,there are 800 thousand job vacancies and a million youngsters unemployed.Most of those jobs are care work and NHS why can't they start out doing those roles.
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      · 14 days ago
      @tintack yes when it comes to working age beneifits, not to the triple lock. that is the driver.
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      · 17 days ago
      @Paul Another reference to the "ballooning welfare bill", even though that claim is demonstrably false.
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    · 17 days ago
    I don't know what is to become of me and others like me If they take away the P I P from disabled people well they may as well murder us all. I have severe breathing difficulties as well as arthrosis in both legs Ashma and c o p d there is no cure and regardless of treatments, I will still get worse. until I die as my lungs are deteriorating. I am in my sixties now not quite at pension age yet.
    Perhaps one day it will happen to them or their loved ones then and only then they will find out how difficult it is on a day-to-day basis.
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      · 17 days ago
      @Angela @Angela i read a story on another website called Reddit how a work coach used to laugh at and belittle sick claimants until one day she become poorly herself and had to leave and then attend her commitments interview at the job centre she used to work at she was not laughing anymore and become traumatised by the whole experience 
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    · 17 days ago
    Burnham is a nightmare. God help us if he wins the by-election. If he becomes PM it'll be a disaster. He is already coming out with AI written announcements, saying whatever people want to hear. He blocked enquiry after enquiry into the Grooming Gangs, and that's as much as we need to know about what sort of man he is. This government has disgusted me from the word go, but I didn't think it would actually get worse. 
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      · 17 days ago
      @Henna He is most likely the lesser of the evils on offer right now
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      · 17 days ago
      @Henna
      While I don't like Burnham I think your point on grooming gangs is mistaken. 

      Reform claim Burnham knew in 2005 about the grooming gangs and did nothing. As the family of a victim had written to the Home Office. Then latter in 2005 Burnham was appointed to the Home Office as Parliamentary Under Secretary in charge of implementation of Identity Cards. And then in July 2005 Manchester police closed down operation Augusta. While Burnham was Parliamentary Under Secretary in charge of implementation of Identity Cards. Reform assumes Burnham was informed of the letter and of operation Augusta closing down. There appears to be no evidence he was.

      Reform claim Burnham as Mayor resisted calls for an inquiry and only launched a limited local inquiry after a TV documentary forced his hand. This appears to be mistaken. As Burnham launched a local inquiry in 2017 upon becoming Mayor and what that inquiry uncovered led to the TV documentaries. Then in 2019 he expanded the local inquiry to cover the whole of Greater Manchester. Reform appear to have missed the earlier inquiry.

      Burnham also backed in Manchester the creation of specialist police units to investigate grooming gangs and to investigate the previous police mishandling of grooming gang investigationd.

      And in 2025 Burnham backed the call for another national inquiry so people could be compelled to give evidence and be held to account. 
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    · 17 days ago
    The Conservatives have announced their own PIP review. That will involve businesses, organisations, charities. The Conservatives PIP review will report in autumn 2026, so around the same time as Labour's PIP rewiew. 
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      · 14 days ago
      @SLB Osborne did the same with dla to pip in 2010. make the policy to fit the numbers. then yell about fraud when they don't.
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      · 17 days ago
      @rtbcpart2 Another one?
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      · 17 days ago
      @John Hooray! Another review. This is what we need 🙄
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      · 17 days ago
      @John But utterly pointless, it seems, as helen Whateley has decided how much money she'll save before she even starts the review.  No-one seems to have told her that you're meant to do the review first and come to conclusions later.  
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    · 17 days ago
    The Timms review, is it the one about 18-24 yr olds specifically or should us older types be just as petrified of what's coming in it. Their have been mentions of various reports being done so much I'm getting muddled up as to which is which.
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      · 17 days ago
      @Neil (real one) I think we have had it in the long run no state pension,insurance system for health and disability benefit only for the severely disabled.
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      · 17 days ago
      @Neil (real one) No Millburn was the Youth Review and Timms is about us.
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      · 17 days ago
      @Neil (real one) Timms PIP review into how to change PIP system. Which will operate within a previous OBR forecast, that I believe has planned but not implemented Tory welfare cuts in its forecast. And has the aim of making PIP financially sustainable into the future. By refocusing PIP on the most disabled (by reducing claimant numbers or benefit amounts of those deemed less disabled).

      Milburn review into rise in 16-24 year olds not in education employment training. Causes and how to reduce with focus on those claiming illnesses and disabilities.

      Fonagy review into if mental health conditions and neurological conditions are overdiagnosed. 
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    · 18 days ago
    Its a Ruddy Annus Horibilis
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      · 17 days ago
      @NeilCook To be fair, it's better than last year.  Burnham has said nothing about cutting disability benefits - quite the opposite, in fact.  
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    · 18 days ago
    It's been announced today that the Timms interim report will be published before the summer recess.
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    · 18 days ago
    Misinformation: Currently MPs and the Media are spouting huge amounts of misinformation - they keep on about why isn't there an incentive in PIP for people to work - because it's not a work related benefit!, they keep on about all the unemployed being lazy etc. when there are approx. 1 million more people looking for jobs than there are jobs! They have a go at people with Anxiety, ADHD, ASD etc. getting ill health benefits - they don't realise that most people have many diagnoses, not just one, and that they are listed alphabetically, with the first one being the one they count -- now check what letters the diseases they are furious against start with!
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      · 17 days ago
      @Sally Anne March Surely if their is a surplus of Job Seekers you would think that all the available jobs would be filled,unless Employers are being Picky.
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    · 18 days ago
    As always politicians turn on the easiest to hit and be tough with people in the country. Those with health issues that they wish they hadnt got that make working in the economy they didnt create one of low pay zero rights were every one is expected to perform to absolute limits of what someone with full health can do.
    Human empathy was thrown in the bin by people who never got the arrogant hands dirty through labour once. Once a person gets a health issue engaging with a work place built to only want perfect efficiency from a human soon becomes difficult then impossible. The politicians do not care and we have all been lied to by Tory media that those on health benefits are simply frauds living of the backs of others so the public dont care.
    Successive Tory governments made us The Enemies Within a phrase Thatcher once referred to my people as all while she was deliberately destroying industries that gave thousands employment and turned Britain into a country utterly dependent on imported fuel and food.
    But now even labour are doing the same.
    They are the enemies not us they are the leechs not us. We are just unfortunate and often desperate.
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    · 18 days ago
    From the guardian live chat:

    Government to publish Timms review into future of Pip before summer recess, McFadden tells MPs
    Pat McFadden, the work and pensions secretary, told the work and pensions select committee this morning that the review being led by Stephen Timms into the future of Pip (the personal independent payment – a disability benefit) will be published before the summer recess, which begins at the end of next month.

    The government announced the review last year when it shelved plans to cut Pip in the welfare bill. At the time ministers said that it would report in the autumn. If it is going to report ahead of schedule, that may indicated a renewed enthusiasm in goverment to press ahead with a fresh attempt at reform.


    So if I’ve got my maths right summer recess starts on 23rd July

     but the timms review workshop in a box end date is on the 17th july and the timms review call for evidence (with 35k replies) ended on 28th? of may

    That means that the timms review inital findings (McFadden doesn’t make it clear if the timms review recommendations would be published at the same time before summer recess- I’m presuming not as that would be ridiculous timing even for this gov) will be published a max of 8 weeks after the call for evidence (surely not enough time to read and properly consider 35k responses) but even more ridiculously a max of 6 days (4 working days) after the timms workshop in a box last submission date - there’s no way to paint that one, the timms review team don’t have the time to read or consider responses collected from that and put findings from this in whatever timms review is published before summer recess (already proof of a farce if only inital findings are published July but if recommendations are also published surely we are in ‘taking dwp to court territory’ as surely this is a loophole too far taken by timms & McFadden.)

    It’s a lot of bollocks the idea that the timms review was a collaboration between disabled community and dwp, and that McFadden didn’t decide what cuts he’s going to do months and Labour backbenchers should repel any tightened criteria that try and excludes ‘invisible but still life crippling disabilities’ - any Labour mp who immediately through us under the bus (or after a non existent ‘concession’) should have their seats targeted in tactical voting 
    These mp’s are putting disabled lives on the line like it’s a game to them - they should be will to stake their job and reputation in return as a bare minimum.
    Petty tit for tat but backbenchers aren’t listening to common sense or fairness - many of us already think this has gotten ugly and playing dirty may be the only option we have left
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      · 17 days ago
      @D (long time poster one) Maybe we could all vote Green.
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      · 18 days ago
      @tintack Got an update on what McFadden actually said - link to whole transcript from dwp committee meeting from earlier today below :


      Pat McFadden: There were a lot of numbers there. First, on the £400
      billion, more than half of that is for the state pension. I do not know
      whether it is your party’s policy to cut the state pension; perhaps you can clarify if it is. But more than half—about 55%—of the bill that is quoted is the state pension. The health and disability proportion of that total has been rising very fast. It is rising slower in this Parliament than in the last, but nevertheless it is rising. The PIP numbers to which you refer were published yesterday.
      I have set out many times my approach to welfare reform and legislation, and I am happy to do so again before the Committee today. I believe that the best way to reform the welfare system is to do more to help get people into work, and that has informed most of the policy that I have announced during my period as Secretary of State. We may have a chance to discuss this in some detail—the youth guarantee measures, the employment support measures that the Chair referred to in her opening questions, and so on.
      On future legislation, we have two very important reviews under way. We have the Milburn report, which is focused specifically on young people.
      Alan Milburn published his interim report a few weeks ago. We have the
      Timms review, which is specifically focused on PIP. I expect an interim
      report from the Timms review before the summer recess. Both reviews will
      give final reports before the end of the year. Depending on their
      conclusions, which I do not want to anticipate too much here, if legislative change is needed, it will come after that.
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      · 18 days ago
      @D (long time poster one)
      It's obviously absurd to publish anything this quickly, and I certainly don't believe the Timms review was ever anything other than a sham PR exercise. I suspect McFadden may be trying to get the process under way before a potential Burnham premiership. After all, McFadden is one of the small inner circle around Starmer, so if Starmer is ousted, McFadden may well be out on his ear as well (especially after those recent e-mails with Lord Yum Yum came out, which is certainly not something that will have done McFadden any favours). 

      If that is what he's up to I'm not sure it's as clever a move as he thinks it is. If Burnham is inclined to go along with whatever recommendations the Timms review comes up with he will do so anyway. If not, as PM he can easily make it clear that he doesn't favour the sort of cuts McFadden was planning and replace him with someone more to his liking. Frankly, until we know the outcome of tomorrow's by-election and, if Burnham wins and becomes PM, any change in government policy, the future is as clear as mud. 
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    · 18 days ago
    I am totally with Andy Burnham if (reading between the lines) he is focussed on getting young people into meaningful and sustainable employment. I really don’t think he will target those people who , for example , have worked most of their lives and have been forced, due to decaying health, or those who have genuine disabilities, into relying on benefits.