Two personal independence payment (PIP) daily living activities are responsible for the majority of 4 point or higher scores, according to figures released by the DWP.

If Labour’s proposals to limit the PIP daily living component to claimants who score 4 points or more for at least one activity become law, over a million current claimants who do not meet the rule will be looking for opportunities to legitimately meet the criteria.

However, according to data in the Pathways to Work:  Evidence pack: Chapter 2 reforming the structure, viable opportunities may be limited to a few activities for most claimants, as most activities have very few claimants who score highly

38% of claimants score 4 points or higher for activity 1, preparing food (36% score 4 points and 2% score 8 points).

32% score 4 points or higher for activity 9,  engaging with other people face-to-face (31% score 4 points and 1% score 8 points)

The next highest is activity 7, communicating verbally, where 14% of claimants score 4 points or higher.

In order of 4 point score, the daily living activities are:

1 Preparing food  38%

9  Engaging with other people  32%

7  Communicating verbally  14%

10  Budgeting  10%

2  Taking nutrition  10%

5  Managing toilet needs  7%

6  Dressing and undressing  7%

4  Washing and bathing  6%

8 Reading and understanding  6%

3  managing therapy  1%

It appears that problems with activities such as managing toilet needs, dressing and undressing and washing and bathing are not often accepted by decision makers as meeting the 4 point threshold.

So, for many claimants, showing that you need supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal may be the best route, if it applies to you.

Following that, especially for those who live with mental health issues, needing social support to be able to engage with other people may be a possible route, though the law around this is complex, so giving relevant evidence is more challenging.

It is hard to see, based on these limited options for higher scores, how the Office for Budget Responsibility’s prediction that only 10% of claimants will lose their daily living award as a result of Labour’s plans will be fulfilled. 

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      · 1 months ago
      @Claire Well I heard one of the Conservative MPs at Diane Abbot’s debate say he would vote against-think he also described the cuts as cruel (although he said reform is needed) and then this Helen Whatley quote,, and as she’s the Shadow DWP Sec that’s certainly significant, but I don’t know how they’re being encouraged to vote as a whole..
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      · 1 months ago
      @Gingin Does this mean the Conservatives will vote against? Certainly sounds like it!The vote will never get through then,Tories pretending they would be sympathetic!
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      · 1 months ago
      @Gingin Bet she agrees with some of the cuts though, hopefully the Tories vote against just to piss off labour
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      · 1 months ago
      @Frances THIS from the CONSERVATIVE shadow DWP secretary Helen Whately: 

      “Labour’s plans dodge the difficult decisions on welfare, leave more people out of work than they put in and will hit some of the nation’s poorest people.

      “The sickness benefits bill is spiralling out of control and these rushed reforms will make things worse, not better.

      “These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy. And it seems that even some of the people closest to Reeves agree with us, not her.”
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    · 1 months ago
    Just seen on bbc news app under politics section that there’s been a massive rise since 2019 of disabled people  becoming homeless and living on streets perhaps all these unforgivable cuts which labour wanna rush through will definitely be paused or just maybe be scrapped or even watered down quite a lot let’s all keep hoping 
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      · 11 days ago
      @James Pensioners claim attendance allowance not PIP and the eligibility is not the same as PIP
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      · 1 months ago
      @James
      Yup James,
      I am one of them! Terrified!
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      · 1 months ago
      @Diceman24 If these changes come in there will also be a massive rise of pensioners with disabilities 
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    · 1 months ago
    The only satisfaction we may get if we survive there term is starmer reeves kendle  and the rest who vote it through is they will never be voted for as mp's again.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Anon "it's just like brexit, people who didn't understand what they were voting for."

      You're right. Not only did they not know what they were voting for, but also that they were becoming the hardest hit by its impacts, as low-income individuals and families voted Brexit in majority just to end up poorer and worse off financially.

      By the same token, those who're excited about Reform are predominantly low-income individuals and families, and Reform hasn't got any answer to lifting them from their poverty. Instead, Reform would only make them poorer and worse off.

      In reality, most of those who are fancying Reform are just attracted to the divisive, racist, xenophobic, and Islamophobic tune that Reform is playing.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Scorpion Without doubt Reform Party is worse by any definition. But Keir Starmer wants to capitalise on this fact and condition people that his Labour is still preferable over Reform. And people are feeling betrayed and hopeless, have given up on Labour, and want to send a message to Keir Starmer that if he does not conform with his mantra of changing the country for the better, they'll vote anyone but Labour and can't be frightened with Reform.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Scorpion I agree,that's exactly what I meant, they're disillusioned by labour and conservative and will vote reform without doing their homework, without reading their policies on disability and out of work benefits , if you pop over to tiktok and just read some of the comments going around on that platform you will realise it's going to be a huge problem and just how mixed up some people are snd how they haven't got a clue about what reform stand for
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Anon Those who voted Reform in last local elections or are thinking of voting it in the next GE are not necessarily attracted to Reform, as it's obvious to anyone in their right mind that opportunist Machiavellian Farage and his far-right club have nothing to offer but blabbering on about immigration and immigrants and fueling division, racism, and xenophobia.

      Voting Reform for them is to express their anger towards Labour, punish it, and get their revenge in a democratically manner, as they feel betrayed, regardless of the consequences of their acts. 

      As far as I'm concerned, I would even vote the devil in person but Keir Starmer's Labour, even if I'll have to go to hell. I won't say, "fool me twice, shame on me", as he failed to fool me last year  - I voted the Greens.
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      · 1 months ago
      @Anon Agreed The disabled who will support Reform in the belief that nothing will be done to them are simply not only blind but still being led by yet another pied piper. They are too busy hating immigrants being scapegoated to think that these people will leave them alone when clearly they are stating very clearly the opposite. This is the politics of divisiveness and the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller ring true once again

      First they came for the Communists
      And I did not speak out
      Because I was not a Communist

      Then they came for the Socialists
      And I did not speak out
      Because I was not a Socialist

      Then they came for the trade unionists
      And I did not speak out
      Because I was not a trade unionist

      Then they came for the Jews
      And I did not speak out
      Because I was not a Jew

      Then they came for me
      And there was no one left
      To speak out for me


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    · 1 months ago
    Theyve already spaffed the 10's billions they will save spent.

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      · 1 months ago
      @A @A They are way too accomplished at that, and twisting the truth to try to make us like like liars. Sure everything is our fault according to them. What they pretend they'll save off our backs is a drop in the ocean anyway. Because it won't work. 
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    · 1 months ago
    Just seen on news about welfare reform government know they will lose the vote they need to push reform through. News says over 150 mps will vote against the reform unless the government pause reforms  and  have consultations on reform green paper and do it the right way with dignity and fairness to all. Maybe at last the government will listen and do the reforms in a proper dignified way and listen to the disable people and charities perhaps labour know they won’t win the next GE if they keep attacking the poorest and the sick like they try to do. So let’s all stick together and keep emailing our local mps thank you for taking your time to read my post 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Laura It's good news for pensioners if they do backtrack but it would be done as an offering to appease the public but the " sacrificial lambs,"us, the disabled ,will still be in the firing line and then people will walk away saying " well you can't win em all" I can actually see this happening as it will cost th treasury a lot less money to reinstate wfp than u turn on benefit cuts from uc esa pip and carers, pitting one part of society off against the other
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Diceman24 And how pathetic that the only was this gov hopes to win votes is by performative cruelty. 

      And cuts to disabled because reeves has no growth - not much of a plan. 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Diceman24 Here's hoping, read that Labour are possibly going to backtrack on the Winter fuel allowance or make it so more can qualify after means testing. Looks like the disastrous local election results are causing a bit of panic and opening Labours eyes. Nobody with any decency would vote for a party that screws the vulnerable over.
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      · 1 months ago
      @rookie Sorry, please disregard my last response. I responded to the wrong comment by accident. lol

      But a lot of good news today, we like to see it!
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      · 1 months ago
      @rookie Here's hoping this actually turns up something and isn't just a repeat of them just getting rid of the idea of freezing PIP. I'm not saying that wasn't a good thing, don't get me wrong, but they got their way in that situation much too easily when all they did was get rid of what could argued to be the least harsh proposal they had.

      As it stands, the whole of the Green Paper needs to be open for consultation at the very least and this will mean having to delay the vote for such a consultation to take place. 

      Anything else is just going to be pure derailment in order for Starmer to get his own way.

      Also, it's about time a major news outlet actually mentioned that PIP is not linked to work. Perhaps I've misread but I haven't seen it mentioned much of anywhere in the mainstream media. But then again, 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Swiftynobeer This is very positive! I know Labour will try to weasel out of making any meaningful changes. But this is good all the same. And FINALLY it’s actually stated in this article that PIP has nothing to do with work! ITV have done well. They also did a news item before about DPAC protesters at that ‘consultation’ event and interviewed Amnesty. 

      The PIP not being connected to work bit in today’s article:

      Most politicians I speak to accept the need for welfare reform and to better incentivise work, but are upset about the specific proposals to make it harder to access Personal Independence Payments, which are designed to help with the cost of disability and are not linked to whether or not a person is employed.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Swiftynobeer Reposting this to the correct comment because the last bit got cut off. :(

      Here's hoping this actually turns up something and isn't just a repeat of them just getting rid of the idea of freezing PIP. I'm not saying that wasn't a good thing, don't get me wrong, but they got their way in that situation much too easily when all they did was get rid of what could argued to be the least harsh proposal they had.

      As it stands, the whole of the Green Paper needs to be open for consultation at the very least and this will mean having to delay the vote for such a consultation to take place.

      Anything else is just going to be pure derailment in order for Starmer to get his own way.

      Also, it's about time a major news outlet actually mentioned that PIP is not linked to work. Perhaps I've misread but I haven't seen it mentioned much of anywhere in the mainstream media. But then again, the editor who wrote up this particular write-up got quite confrontational with Kendall whenever she interviewed her, which was quite nice to see. It's just a shame she didn't bring up the fact that PIP is not an out of work benefit during any of these interviews.
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    · 1 months ago
    THE LABOUR PARTY AND THE GOVERNMENT are finished for GOOD, therefore, it will be a very, very long time not in my lifetime before they will get any recognition from any voters who will fall for these deceiving labour party again and they might as well enjoy what they hold as an Labour MP for the next four years.
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      · 1 months ago
      @Robin Hood I would change support if they get rid of Starmer and his cohort inside the labour party by a challenge to the leadership and reversing his damage. Much like the tories rid themselves of Liz Truss and Bojo
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    · 1 months ago
    still no clarity on PIP for those over Pension age ?
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      · 1 months ago
      @CaroA Laugh away, @CarolA, it's the best medicine. If only the government realised that and stopped with the misery. Think of the savings then!
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      · 1 months ago
      @rookie Beautifully introduced link -it almost made me laugh although I know that's not allowed and could lose me some points!
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    · 1 months ago
    A new pip assessment is part of the government's agenda. I'm not sure there's any value in estimating how 4 points might be achieved, when we don't know how the points will be allocated.
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    · 1 months ago
    That Silver Fox youtube channel mentioned a special advisor who resigned working for Rachel Reeves, that special advisor mentioned that these cuts are just and only a money saving exercise. Will that wash with the courts? 
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    · 1 months ago
    Am I naive to believe that some of these proposals will be watered down? Going full throttle on this will destroy the Labour party, don't listen to the Telegraph or the Daily Mail, cutting disability benefits is not popular, we do know that disabled people have families and or friends who see their plight and know what these cold and callous plans will do to them?

    Again this effects the person I care for, I know his family will never vote Labour ever again, disabled people as a voting bloc can sway elections if they voted for their own interests, food for thought.

    Last week I made a mistake in thinking that Reform might go softer on benefits, Richard Tice and Nigel Farage do not like people on any form of benefits, Clacton is one of the most deprived areas in Britain and one presumes that they rely on in or out of work benefits. 
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    · 1 months ago
    I have autism but it’s lower level however for the past few years autism all rolls into one their is no different level and once you have a diagnosis from nhs then that’s it their is no ongoing support so if I needed to get 4 points for the new pip criteria then how would I prove that I have been socially isolated for the past 28 years?
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      · 1 months ago
      @Old Mother I don't have any of those people and from September I won't have a therapist either because the NHS service I've used for 22 years is being shut down. I'll have no-one who can speak up for me.
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      · 1 months ago
      @James h They can’t prove you haven’t though. Probes by assessors hone in on friends, social life - even marriage - partners etc. 
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      · 1 months ago
      @James h Admin - a lot of us are losing words when we post!

      My last lines read (before posting):

      I am wondering if getting a "Professional Opinion" might help fight your corner. You could tell the therapist, in great detail about your social isolation over the years & how badly it has affected you, as long as the therapist agrees to provide you with a detailed report at the end.

      Losing your current award would be financially disastrous for you, so paying for a few sessions of therapy could be an alternative and worthwhile investment?

      My reply to you contains mere pointers, as I'm not an expert, so please seek advice & guidance before spending any money
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      · 1 months ago
      @James h James, I'm thinking on my feet here, (obviously - not literally), but the thing that can give you a leg up (there I go again), in the arduous process that is PIP, appears to be / could possibly be "Expert Opinion". 

      Since you say that you don't have access to "Medical Opinion" perhaps there is another way?

      Is there an autism website or telephone helpline that could signpost you towards therapy / CBT? 

      I am wondering if getting a "Professional Opinion" might help fight your corner. You could tell the therapist, in great detail about your social isolation over the years & how badly it has affected you, 

       paying for a few sessions of therapy could be an alterative and worthwhile investment?


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    · 1 months ago
    Maybe I am being a bit thick but a lot of figures going around don’t make a lot of sense. I have seen this elsewhere: Out of 1,608,000 enhanced daily living awards, 13% get fewer than 4 points in all activities.
    Out of 1,283,000 standard daily living awards, 87% get fewer than 4 points in all activities. According to above news in excess of 90% score at least 4 points in a single activity. Now I know there could be claimants who score 4 in more than one activity but it is hard to know exactly how many people are risk.
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    · 1 months ago
    Ive just put my lottery tickets on for tonight & tomorrow, we've probably got more chance of winning than getting the 4 points we should be awarded .
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    · 1 months ago
    I remain somewhat optimistic that some of this will be quietly rolled back. Indeed the Labour Party will have failed at democracy if this ultimately loses more votes than it wins. 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Dods When you consider the total number of votes for Labour during the last election was 9,750,0090 or so, and that in fact it was less then Corbyn's 13,400,000 votes and there are 3 million plus disabled in the country it does not take a mathematical genius to work out that those disabled and their families will cause quiet a dent in the numbers. Labour's bound to fail in the next election if they lose their core voters while chasing Reforms voters!  They will neither get the right vote and will end up many of the progressive votes instead.
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    · 1 months ago
    DWP Decision Makers should have no role in WCA and PIP assessments and their outcomes.

    They've ZERO medical expertise, as most of them haven't even got their GSCE, yet they're allowed to mess with the health reports of health assessors. They review assessment reports and make a final determination about eligibility. In result, nearly 70% of decisions appealed to tribunals are overturned in favor of the claimants, and this is mainly due to the fact that decision makers have disagreed with the assessor's recommendations, and thus have awarded a different rate or denied it altogether, even though they've ZERO medical skills.


    Solution: Health assessors should be the only ones in charge of deciding the final award and rates. Decision makers, on the other hand, should be asked to go get real jobs.
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      · 1 months ago
      @Yorkie Bard Thank you I will. 
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      · 1 months ago
      @@s123 s123, have a good look round the Benefits and Work PIP guides. They have very useful advice on the best way to put a request for a MR together - I used them when I asked for a MR.
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      · 1 months ago
      @Scorpion And this is where the money is wasted.  It’s the DWP/Gov causing rising costs.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Scorpion
      The assessors use the LIMA system and they choose which descriptor applies.  Each descriptor is allocated a set number of points.  You can apply for a copy of the assessment report before it even goes to a decision maker and it shows the descriptors the assessor has applied, therefore the points that are applied.  A decision maker can disagree and increase or decrease the points but, I'm confident that in a majority of cases, they just agree with it and sign it off.

      A quote from Yorkie Bard's post:

      "The assessor's company allocated a Senior Assessor to look at my case again and the upshot was that their recommendation to the DWP went from 8 to 16 points. The DWP agreed with the new assessment".

      The senior assessor that looked at the case again recommended to DWP that the points increased from 8 to 16 and DWP decision maker agreed.  That means the senior assessor did allocate the points and DWP agreed.
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      · 1 months ago
      @Yorkie Bard Hello and thank you for answering. Yes she obtained a report and on it the assessor does say how she is struggling but has simplified the version to she can use Aids for washing cooking and putting on clothes. When my daughter told her that she has severe symptoms stage 4 endometriosis and in debilitating pain where her insides are stuck together. She will in a year have surgery to remove the left side of her ovaries and tubes. Then another year later to start removing the endometriosis slowly. Due to the sticking together she cannot stretch her arms upwards or outwards as it pulls her stomach which stops her washing herself and needs help with her hair back shoulders , and all to put on clothes. As to her making food she cannot stand or even sit unless it’s to 1
      Side on the chair for only a few mins and then the pain starts there is no way she can cook chop or even carry food. For a MR what is needed ? 
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    · 1 months ago
    It's ridiculous how much of the assessment is simply a matter of opinion. An applicant says they can't prepare food, the assessor says they can and doesn't award or recommend 4 points. The advice for anyone applying for PIP should include asking your doctor to be very specific about things you have difficulty with so you've got a professional judgement to back you up.

    It's scary how deeply flawed and inadequate the whole process is 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Anon The microwave question isn't taken nearly as seriously as it should be. My brother also struggles to use a microwave safely and has given himself food poisoning on several occasions. If his wife were not around, he will opt not to use a microwave at all. 

      The whole reason why only being able to use a microwave scores you points in the first place when it comes to PIP is because it is not possible for them to reliably cook food as well as a pre-heated oven. But people do not know this simply because of how convenient they seem to be.

      If you combine the way the heat is distributed by the microwave with the fact that the instructions on the back of microwave meals are mere guidelines and are not a solid reference (which can be a struggle to discern if you have learning difficulties), it can be very tricky for disabled people to work out if their food is safe for consumption. 

      And food poisoning is no joke. It can come with long term damage to your gastrointestinal system or could kill you. This is why supervision and having that second opinion is vital for a lot of people.
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      · 1 months ago
      @tom Sadly this is all true Tom (and george25). The dice really are loaded against applicants. The best a PIP applicant can do is describe their problems in forensic detail and pile on as much evidence as possible. The outcome then depends on an assessor who may or may not take your side on the day and a bureaucrat who interprets the assessor's report correctly. It is quite plausible for 2 applicants with similar problems to get anywhere from 0 to 16 points. There has to be a better way than this!!!
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      · 1 months ago
      @Quietplease Problem is with a GP letter / report they will say that your GP is only reporting what you have told them as they are not with you at home even judges at tribunals would give that evidence much weight, unless it from a consultant who reports on the limitations you have and how that may impact   what you are able to do
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Quietplease If your doctor knows what you can do or not etc as most don't unless you have told them and  I never get to see the same doctor  even,  it's ridiculous all round . 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Quietplease Couldn’t agree more. I told my assessor that I couldn’t even use a microwave without supervision. They only scored me two points “for being able to use a microwave” anyway.

      I didn’t bother fighting it because I got enough points for enhanced anyway but I certainly have to hammer the point down even more if using a microwave won’t score any points eventually period.
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