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Increasing amounts of Green Paper data

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There is an increasing amount of evidence about the Green Paper proposals being published, some by choice by the DWP and some being obtained by MPs and campaigners.

On the Pathways to Work Green Paper consultation page the DWP has published evidence packs relating to the first four chapters of the Green paper with a pdf file and a spreadsheet setting out evidence the DWP considers supports its case.

Pathways to Work: Evidence pack: Chapter 1 case for change evidence  (pdf)

Pathways to Work: Evidence pack: Chapter 1 case for change evidence  (spreadsheet)

Pathways to Work: Evidence pack: Chapter 2 reforming the structure  (pdf)

Pathways to Work: Evidence pack: Chapter 2 reforming the structure (spreadsheet)

Pathways to Work: Evidence pack: Chapter 3 supporting people to thrive  (pdf)

Pathways to Work: Evidence pack: Chapter 3 supporting people to thrive  (spreadsheet)

Elsewhere, a Freedom of Information Act request by Sharon Walters has revealed details of the ages of PIP claimants who do not score 4 points or more in any daily living activity.

Age

band

Number of standard daily living claimants with no 4 points

Percentage  of standard daily living claimants with no 4 points

Number of enhanced daily living claimants with no 4 points

Percentage of enhanced daily living claimants with no 4 points

16-19

9,000

45%

2,000

1%

20-29

80,000

74%

12,000

4%

30-39

168,000

85%

28,000

11%

40-49

227,000

89%

41,000

15%

50-59

361,000

90%

69,000

18%

60+

559,000

91%

102,000

19,%

Total

1,404,000

  

254,000

  
         

And a written parliamentary answer by DWP disability minister Stephen Timms provides a spreadsheet which lists the number of people who receive the daily living component of PIP without scoring 4 points or more.  The spreadsheet looks at claimants by Westminster constituency and by local authority figures you could share both with your MP and with local media.

It shows a very wide variation by constituency with 36% of claimants in Sheffield Hallam scoring fewer than 4 points compared to 52% in Boston and Skegness.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Dave Dee
    · 7 days ago
    I always find it amusing how there's constant talk about the "unsustainability" of the Welfare bill, and yet very little talk about the unsustainability of the Triple lock mechanism for the State pension, which i believe is a much bigger issue in terms of fiscal unsustainability.

    I know you shouldn't do the whole this group of vs that group of people division thing, but it does irk me a lot.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Jane
      · 5 days ago
      @Dave Dee Because they vote in big numbers. So if disabled people want to be taken seriously we need to vote too, ideally tactically.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Helen Galloway
      · 6 days ago
      @Andy If some of us do and that’s debatable. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Andy
      · 6 days ago
      @Dave Dee Let's see if you still think that when you reach pension age
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      James
      · 7 days ago
      @Dave Dee The talk of unsustainability is just politicians talking. The care costs are rising in line with GDP growth and as a percentage it has made very little negligible difference. It is just that the government looks at year on year cost rises without taking into account year on year revenues and of course those caused through inflation which in the past few years the UK performance has been poor but not unsustainable. National revenues are now over 1.3 trillion almost double of that when the Cameron government came in in 2010! 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Matt
    · 7 days ago
    On a related matter, I see the ONS has published statistics that show the number of vacancies is fast disappearing....so who's going to employ the disabled once the cuts to PIP kick in?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      James
      · 7 days ago
      @Matt Yes that is why the head of the ONS was forced to step down by the government!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Mb
    · 7 days ago
    Rightnet headline (not a member so I can't read it) says "WCA severe condition criteria to be used to determine health element" Does this mean that they're not going to rely on PIP after all? Is there a list of specific 'severe conditions' on a list somewhere? Why do I feel like this could be even worse news :(
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley-anne
      · 7 days ago
      @Dave Dee
      That is a disgusting thing for Richard Tice to say! They all need to remember that they are only one step away from being disabled themselves.  We don't choose to be disabled, things happen such as dealing with life's challenges, including loss and grief.
      Accidents or mental and physical illnesses.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Dave Dee
      · 7 days ago
      @Mb Until it's iron clad definitive news take things with a pinch of salt. Last week I made the mistake of thinking that Reform could protect disabled people, Richard Tice come out again saying they're scroungers...
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    SLB
    · 7 days ago
    I confess that I am confused by a statement made on May 9th by Timms.  In response to a question he came out with this:

    "The assessment of the Office for Budget Responsibility, published at the Spring
    Statement, is that most of the current claimants of PIP Daily Living who did not score
    four points in any of the activities at their last assessment will, nevertheless, because
    of behaviour changes, be awarded PIP Daily Living again after the proposed eligibility
    changes take effect."

    Am I the only one who thinks this makes no sense?  People who did not get four points will, because of behavioural changes, be awarded PIP after the changes.  What behavioural changes?  Perhaps he thinks we'll all stop taking our meds for a month before our next assessment so we are in more pain and less mobile than before?    Perhaps I'm missing something?

    The full response starts at the bottom of page 49 in this document:
    https://qna.files.parliament.uk/qnadailyreports/Written-Questions-Answers-Statements-Daily-Report-Commons-2025-05-09.pdf
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Bern400
      · 5 days ago
      @SLB The behaviour changes it refers to are claimants preparing better and collecting more relevant medical evidence for their PIP assessments and fighting harder against decline decisions etc.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Frances
      · 6 days ago
      @Helen Galloway
      @Helen Galloway, well It's not a very specific thing to say. Saying "most" is not specific. It does not identify who are the "most" or who are the remainder and it does not explain how some people who did not get 4 points for any activity will retain their pip (via whatever undisclosed "behaviour changes") after the proposed measures are implemented.

      We're left with a puzzle and without certainty, just as we were with his comment on pensioners being unaffected because they are not "routinely" or "fully" reviewed. It's vague to the point of nonsense, which I think @SLB has pointed out, and is why I think Timms has lost it.

      It could be, as you have said, "smoke and mirrors", but if Timms is being pushed to leave all options open and deliberately to avoid clarity, he's obviously feeling the strain. He looks like a man on the edge of a breakdown.



    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Helen Galloway
      · 6 days ago
      @Frances most of the current claimants of PIP Daily Living...will...be awarded PIP Daily Living again after the proposed eligibility changes take effect. "
      That’s a very specific thing to say. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Helen Galloway
      · 6 days ago
      @SLB And that is the changed behaviour I think. A telling comment actually. Smoke and mirrors I think 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Helen Galloway
      · 6 days ago
      @SLB My impression is that more people will fight to get 4 points. I know I didn’t get as many points as I think I should have but because I was awarded it I just accepted it. But I will take apart every single bit of my review and subsequent decisions because now I have to. I’m not saying that the process will be easier it’s going to be tougher. But people will fight to keep it as they should 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    rookie
    · 7 days ago
    Would it be wrong to suggest these tables indicate yet another potential dwp shot in the foot, in that there is a likelihood they could have to pay out more higher rate awards when people start fighting for the 4 points?

    Can't see at all where these welfare savings are coming from. So much already spent, nothing done yet, and so much misery caused already. It's like HS2, badly designed, not properly costed, ineptly managed, crashing through our lives, with no progress, and too late, when it's started then abandoned, to prevent the carnage. Best we can do is to halt it before it goes further.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Bern400
      · 5 days ago
      @Bern400 So although the number of tribunals might increase, especially in the short term, the actual number of successful appeals will REDUCE because the courts can only judge using the CRITERIA in the new PIP assessment
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Bern400
      · 5 days ago
      @rookie It seems that Labour have in mind a tightening of the PIP eligibility criteria around mental health and neurodiversity and possibly around the “condition” of being young.

      In addition, the Green Paper warns that the aim of the new assessment is to “shape a system of active support that helps people manage and adapt to their long-term condition and disability in ways that expand their functioning and improve their independence.”

      It is entirely unclear what this might mean, except it sounds like some claimants may be given something other than cash i.e. CBT sessions and fast-track mental health referrals. 



    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Bert
      · 7 days ago
      @rookie I think the government will save alot more than the 5 billion outlined, more like 12 billion as most of us on here will lose out.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    WorkshyLayabout
    · 7 days ago
    SLB, wasn't chapter 2 the one your consultation you were locked out of on?
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    WorkshyLayabout
    · 7 days ago
    Well "luckily" for this workshy layabout living in Boston and Skegness, I'm not one of the 52% getting fewer than 4 points. Nope. I don't get PIP so I get no points. 

    Bye bye UC LCWRA. It's been nice knowing ya.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Bert
      · 7 days ago
      @Dave Dee Yes you have caught me out.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Dave Dee
      · 7 days ago
      @Bert Liz Kendall is that you?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      godgivemestrength
      · 7 days ago
      @WorkshyLayabout WorkshyLayabout These applications are a challenge, but it sounds as if you have good grounds for pip. It might not be as hard as you fear. Perhaps someone could help. Any award is a lot to miss out on if you're eligible, and can passport you to other things, as you probably know.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Bert
      · 7 days ago
      @WorkshyLayabout Stephen timms has said today that reforms are definitely going ahead and has not ruled out further changes down the line.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      godgivemestrength
      · 7 days ago
      @WorkshyLayabout Presumably you have been turned down for pip or have a good reason for not applying, but could you not, given you have lcwra, still try for pip before these proposals are implemented, especially as now you know what you would need for it to continue, if these proposals are voted through? 

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