The second reading of the Universal Credit and Personal Independent Payment Bill begins at 1.40pm today.

The vote is expected at 7.00pm

You can watch the debate live on parliament tv here.

We won’t be giving a blow-by-blow account of the debate, but you are welcome to comment on proceedings below the line.


You can see a full list of the votes on the second reading here.  49 Labour MPs rebelled.


The vote on the Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill second reading is:  For 335.  Against 260.  A majority in favour of the bill of 75.


Here is the list of which MPs voted for and against the amendment.


The vote on the rebel amendment has now been held.  149 in favour of the bill being dropped without a second reading, 328 against.  This means the amendment has failed and there will now be a vote on the actual bill itself.


4-point PIP rule is gone

The 4-point PIP rule is effectively dead as Labour makes its biggest concession yet.  Timms has just told the House:  "I can announce that we are going to remove the clause five from the bill at committee, that we will move straight to the wider review, sometimes referred to as the Timms review, and only make changes to Pip eligibility, activities and descriptors following that review."

Clause 5 is the 4-point rule, so that is now gone.  Instead, the Timms review will decide what happens to PIP.  And if, as Labour have promised, the review is genuinely coproduced with disabled people there is very little chance of such a rule ever happening.  And if Labour did try to force it into the review decision they would be likely to face an even worse rebellion than the one they have just suffered,

This seems to mean that the main purpose of the bill is now to take money from future recipients of the UC health element and to introduce the severe conditions criteria.


Jessica Elgot of the Guardian is reporting on Bluesky that the government are considering more concessions whilst Arj Sigh of the i paper says crisis talks between Angela Rayner and the rebels on changes to PIP rules being put off until after Timms has carried out his review.


Rachel Maskell's reasoned amendment has been selected by the speaker for a vote.  This is the rebel amendment which has 39 Labour signatures. It will be voted on at the end of the dabate.  If it doesn't pass then MPs will vote on the main bill.


Debbie Abrahams, chair of the Commons work and pensions committee has confirmed this afternoon that she will "not be supporting the bill".


Given that the new amendment calling for the bill not to have a second reading got only 39 Labour signatures, most media commentators are predicting that Labour will get the bill though, though by a relatively narrow margin.  More than just these 39 Labour MPs are expected to vote against or abstain.

But the reality is that nobody can be certain, because the rebels are not a unified group and much may depend on whether Liz Kendall makes a better job of today’s proceedings than she did of yesterday’s.

 

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    I can't see how the Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill can continue to a third reading. There's nothing about Personal Independence Payment left in the bill. Surely, as it stands, the bill will have to be withdrawn?
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    · 2 hours ago
    I felt sorry for the poor assistance dog in the house, having to go through this sham, and listen to Timms and co  and their dishonesty packaged as reforms. Given a choice, I’m sure the poor dog would have rather been out sniffing some lamposts/grass verges. A painful watch.
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      · 50 minutes ago
      @(No) hope Yep.. not much fun for the poor being. I always think along the same lines. Hopefully the doggo gets some freedom away from such a headache and gets to be a Dog.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 hours ago
    So people with acne and food intolerance are calling themselves disabled?! Really?? And who is assessing them for pip in the first place I wonder? Was a time charity started at home but not now. What a disgrace! That's labour and torys off my voting list, doesn't leave much does it. 
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      · 22 minutes ago
      @Kayzee The MP used them to illustrate widespread abuse of the PIP system is ridiculous. But they are not good examples of widespread abuse as they rare awards apparently only 6 PIP awards for acne and 22 for food intolerance and for both conditions decision makers are insinstructed to consult the DWP medical expert before making an awarded. So they are unlikely to be fraudulent or exaggerated as they have an extra check by a medical expert. It is that rare the DWP medical expert in consultation with the NHS basically makes the award decision not a normal DWP decision maker. 
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      · 1 hours ago
      @Kayzee "So people with acne and food intolerance are calling themselves disabled?! Really??"

      Considering the origin of that claim (from an organisation known as the Taypayers' Alliance, which is known for its dubious principles when it comes to public spending), I would take it with the tiniest grain of salt.

      Also, I have to be honest: it's very easy to take something as serious as Celiac disease and water it down to a mere 'food intolerance' when you're against disabled people getting any form of welfare and wish to poison the well. 

      After all, PIP isn't about condition. It's about how conditions affect you and Celiac disease can come with growth issues and neurological complications due to deficiency. But of course, the Tories and the Taxpayers' Alliance won't care about all that.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 hours ago
    Panic attack not good 
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    · 3 hours ago
    Kendall rules out resigning after her bill only passes following multiple U-turns branded shambolic
    Liz Kendall, the work and pensions secretary, has recorded a pooled interview with Chris Mason, the BBC political editor.

    She has ruled out resigning, saying she wants to carry on.

    ————————

    Anyone got a straitjacket 🍌
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 minutes ago
      @D It won't be long before Starmer's bus turns up!
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      · 1 hours ago
      @D So much for an honorable exit 
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      · 1 hours ago
      @D Of course she wants to carry on,the slaughter of the innocents isn't over yet. It will only be mission accomplished when she draws blood. I don't hate anyone, I try not to,its self destructive, but for her, I might make an exception. Vile,the lot of them
       
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 hours ago
      @D It's adorable that she thinks she has any choice in the matter. 

      As for the straitjacket question, I feel we should entertain the delusions. I'm sure that's what psychologists say is best.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    More waiting and worrying for people because we are now in such a muddle no one knows what they will do. Strictly speaking they could water down concessions change things remove things  but the backlash of doing this would be very damaging too damaging for them to continue as they are . But a risk has been taken with our futures sandwiched in the middle. I’m watching who votes for what I will not vote for anyone who doesn’t vote to support extremely vulnerable people.i will not forget who I saw and who I did not see supporting us. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    What on earth has just happened? What’s the point even talking about it, those who voted for these cuts should feel ashamed and will have blood on their hands in the future.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 hours ago
      @Kevin I agree Kevin, it's incredibly callous that people who don't become sick or disabled until after their deadline will suffer greatly, the whole thing should have been scrapped.  When is this sh!t show going to end, nothing but ambiguity and patronising sound bites? Don't they think they've caused enough stress, now we have to wait for the Timms review and a possible backtracking. They really do think of us as peasants, naive and stupid who can't see through their incompetence and idiocy.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    I actually don’t understand what is left in the bill? What have they just agreed to? Really am very confused.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 hours ago
      @Anniesmum
      Left in the bill after the government's announced ammendments. 

      Cutting UC health element for new claimants except the severe conditions criteria group and freezing the uprating UC health element for new claimants except the severe conditions criteria group.

      Narrowing eligibility to the UC severe criteria group for new claimants

      Increasing UC standard allowance by more than inflation.

      For existing UC health recipients and for new UC health claimants in the severe criteria group. Increasing UC standard allowance +UC health combined by at least inflation. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    Don't know what to think. Is the result good or bad, and why? Please excuse my confusion and ignorance. My brain is scrambled now. 
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    · 3 hours ago
    Really enjoying reading people losing their minds over the 4 point rule being dropped because "oh, no - my taxes!" on certain outlets.

    If these people expressed as much anger over a government claiming they can't afford to look out for the disabled and/or people who work but cannot afford to live but they can afford to not have a wealth tax, we may actually get somewhere as a country.

    Not to mention it's not entirely safe to say that Labour won't bring in these "concessions" at a later date so don't worry, these people will certainly have your chance to cheer them on doing this yet again. Just expect me to feel bad for any of them when (not if) a tax hike does happen anyway. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    I can definitely see what's coming here now, there just going to make it extremely difficult for anyone to qualify for LCWRA with whatever new criteria they bring in so the vast majority of people will lose their £423 and be deemed fit for work and therefore having to look for work.
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      · 2 hours ago
      @CJA Even if that's what they're planning, it will be a great deal harder for them to get something like that through after this fiasco. They've been humiliated by their own MPs over a bill forecast to plunge 150,000 people into poverty, but if they try to take UC health from existing claimants that would plunge at least 600,000 people into poverty - maybe more. Their MPs now know they can defeat the government if they organise and having rebelled once, it will be easier for them to do so on subsequent votes.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 hours ago
      @CJA Oh god I hope not, I can't afford to lose what I I already get
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    Gingin - margarita time!!!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 hours ago
      @Yorkie Bard Damn it, no tequila in the house!!! I’ll have apple juice or tea with those who agreed to join me and save the margarita for the weekend 🤪
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    · 3 hours ago
    The only bright side - we had our first draft of the Labour mp hitlist for seats to sabotage in the next election:

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      · 2 hours ago
      @D Unfortunately things may get much worse at the next general election, both conservatives & reform have already said they would go much further to reduce the benefits bill, therefore today’s vote is only a reprieve and we will all need to scrutinise every party’s manifestos before we vote.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 hours ago
      @D God, so many people I had high hopes for but voted it through anyway. Vicky Foxcroft resigning from the whip position and then voting the amended bill through anyway is especially performative. Just downright disappointing.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    What an absolute farce.
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    · 3 hours ago
    So now we have to see what the review brings in and a fight again if it is not positive

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    · 3 hours ago
    So, on to next week, to find out what the bill actually contains.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    For Christ sake

    MPs vote through welfare bill by 335 votes to 260 - majority of 75
    The bill has passed by 335 votes to 260 – a majority of 75.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    Reasoned Amendment Second Reading: Ayes (150)  Noes (328) 

    MPs voted through welfare bill by 335 votes to 260 - majority of 75.

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago
    Let's hope that now, at the very least, this whole fiasco signals the end for Kendall if not Reeves and Starmer.

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