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Universal Credit Bill listed as money bill for House of Lords

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The Universal Credit Bill (formerly the Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment bill) has been listed for its second reading in the House of  Lords as a money bill.

According to the UK Parliament website, the second reading and all remaining stages of the Universal Credit (Money Bill) will take place on 22 July.

This means that the Lords can suggest amendments, but the Commons can simply ignore them and the bill will become law one month after it completes all its stages in the Lords.

Along with racing through the committee, report and third reading stage of the bill in the Commons in a single session yesterday, this is another tactic by Labour to prevent any scrutiny of legislation that will take money away from hundreds of thousands of future disabled universal credit claimants.

It also makes it even harder to trust that the government will be seriously interested in the views of disabled people when the Timms review begins its work after the summer.  Genuine consultation does not seem to be something that this Labour government can bear to be involved in.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Moose
    · 1 days ago
    How is this democratic? To be able to name something as a money bill and thus do exactly as they please is an affront to the democratic process. This is a disgrace and an an abuse of power.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      John
      · 9 hours ago
      @Moose The Lords are not elected. So if anything it is more democratic for them to not have a say. The problem is the poor quality of our MPs. Most do not seem to bother reading or trying to understand the legislation they vote on, and just vote the party line. The debates in the Commons in my opinion also demonstrate a lack of interest, evident by the lack of attendance and the lack of depth of knowledge demonstrated in the debates. Our elected politicians seem disinterested in actually learning about subjects, having informed debates and making good laws. They seem to be just party loyalists and lobbyist fodder. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    tintack
    · 1 days ago
    "Labour must discover 'second wind' on welfare reform, says Alan Milburn

    Keir Starmer has been urged to intensify efforts to reform welfare by the former Labour cabinet minister Alan Milburn.

    In a speech today, Miliburn said Britain “cannot afford the government to give up on welfare reform” because of the rising cost of sickness and disability benefits.

    He also praised Liz Kendall’s leadership at the Department for Work and Pensions as “radical and courageous”.

    Kendall had to oversee a massive U-turn last week when the government dropped plans to restrict eligibility for Pip (the personal independent payment – a disability payment) only 90 minutes before a vote that the government might otherwise have lost because so many Labour MPs opposed the proposals.

    Miliburn, who was an arch-Blairite health secretary in the last Labour government and who is now advising Wes Streeting as a non-executive director at the Department of Health and Social Care, said:

    Public spending [in sickness and disability benefits] is projected to rocket by £21bn over the next five years. This is not sustainable, fiscally, socially or economically. While efforts to reform welfare have stalled following the events in parliament last week the government will need to discover a second wind.

    Miliburn said the review of Pip now being led by Stephen Timms, the disability minister, “must not duck the challenge of reform”. He went on:

    The more it is framed as a means of enabling people to fulfil their aspirations to work rather than simply as a means of saving public money, the more likely it is to succeed.

    It is time for a radically new approach where there is an expectation that those who can work should do so - and they should be offered more help to enable them to get a job."



    That's former Labour minister and ultra-Blairite Alan Milburn apparently learning nothing from the events of the last couple of weeks and doing his best impersonation of Kemi Badenoch. Sadly, while Kendall's plans to plunge hundreds of thousands of sick and disabled people into poverty might be described as "radical" in all the wrong ways, Milburn couldn't explain how they qualify as "courageous".
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      (No) hope
      · 10 hours ago
      @tintack Milburn has been quiet of late, even with all of this going on, it was inevitable he would come out of the woodwork at some point. Was he not responsible with Kendall for the pilot scheme in Bradford for “get Britain working?” And plunging the already impoverished and destitute into new depths of poverty is viewed as “ heroic” and “courageous”. These people really are warped.

      Sometimes I struggle to understand how even with legislation such as the disability discrimination act, ministers continue on the same familiar course of cuts, and the deliberate causing of hardship to hundreds of thousands, targeting a particular group of people(us).And even the UN voices their concerns, for what they are worth.
      It’s an ongoing fight against a government who will explore new ways of changing welfare by any means possible, and by ways of attracting minimal scrutiny. With b and w at our side, we can at least stay in the fight.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    kevin
    · 1 days ago
    This really shows that democracy is an illusion. 

    There are no political parties that represent the poor, disabled, mentally ill or working class in the country. They are all just variants of conservatives. I will never vote again as it is a complete waste of time and only empower's more sociapths into to power to victimise us. It is time to face the harsh facts of life, if you're at the bottom of society you're a second class citizen with no rights, especially disabled or mentally ill. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      John
      · 9 hours ago
      @kevin At the last general election. The LibDems said they would increase Carer's benefits and the Greens said they would increase Disability benefits. Maybe if Labour had won fewer seats and had to go into coalition with one of the them we would have got something. Wishful thinking I know as we might have just got an apology as they reneged on their election promises.

      I still remember before the 2010 general election Cameron saying the vulnerable have nothing to fear if the Conservatives win, and how his own farther and son were disabled. And the Tory shadow DWP minister Ian Duncan Smith saying Carer's benefits should be doubled in amount as soon as possible. Still didn't vote Tory so at least I did not get buyers remorse or to blame myself.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      D2
      · 1 days ago
      @kevin I agree Kevin do NOT feel we have any party to represent us. AGAIN decisions and consultations will NOT be with us the afflicted. It will turn out to be the same as it was with the recent. alleged. consultations. It was an absolute farce!

      I am hoping what James has said on this site does come in to fruition. Of a new party being formed!

      Those they will consult with I fear, is who they already have consulted with towards the end of the Tory reign and was continued behind our backs with Starmer and co...,. Lets hope that those organisations, agencies have enough compassion and sense to have learnt that they then manipulate their words.





  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Jennifer
    · 1 days ago
    I am still very fearful of possible deliberate sneaky tactics e.g. delaying planned migrations of those of us currently on ESA in the support group to Universal Credit until after April 2026. Wouldn't this mean we would then lose the higher level of the Health Element of Universal Credit? Thought this uncertainty and worry would be coming to an end this week but am still as worried (and ill) as I was before. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      D2
      · 10 hours ago
      @Jennifer Hi Jennifer I do NOT think that will happen I think you will be 'migrated' across It was originally everyone would be migrated across by 2028! Then they ramped it up (I have been caught up and am still caught up in the process - hopefully should now be nearing the end) Then the Government  ramped it up to 66,000 letters being sent out before the end of April 2026 then more recently it has been 'ramped' up to 88,000 migration letters to be sent out before December of this year (2025)! In effect the current intention is ALL will be migrated across by the end of this year. I only KNOW this due to being currently in the 'Managed Migration' process! CAB informed me that it has been 'ramped up' again!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      The Dogmother
      · 1 days ago
      @Jennifer My exact worry too. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    D
    · 1 days ago
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/dwp-sets-out-next-steps-35529130?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button

    The minister also shared an update on the progress of the review and what happens next. He explained: "I have now spoken to a range of stakeholders to gather views on how best to approach the review. Proposed terms of reference have been published.

    I will engage widely over the summer to design the process for the work of the review, including to ensure that expertise from a range of different perspectives is drawn upon." 



  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    D
    · 1 days ago
    https://advicenetwork.org.uk/dwp-publishes-terms-of-reference-for-review-of-pip-assessment-to-make-sure-it-is-fair-and-fit-for-the-future-in-a-changing-world/
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    D
    · 1 days ago
    From z2k twitter account:

    We're very worried that the Timms Review of PIP promised by the government will fall far short of genuine coproduction🧵

    It was always the case that the Timms Review would engage with disabled people.

    The government has not explained how the new commitment to co-production will differ from its original plans for the Review.

    Co-production should mean that disabled people have equal decision-making power.

    But we already have concerns that disabled people are not being meaningfully involved in the Review.

    One of our disabled clients attended a Timms Review meeting last week - supposedly to help co-produce the terms of reference.

    She was shocked to then discover that those terms had already been finalised and published the same day.

    The government must urgently set out the detail of how the Review will be co-produced with disabled people.

    Without a clear definition, this important concession risks becoming empty rhetoric.

    ——————————————

    I’ve read other things online that also suggest the timms review and recommendations has already been decided on and will be presented in early autumn after summer recess with primary/secondary legislation announced only weeks later

    Disability organisations and campaigners (such as benefits and work blog writers) need to chat to one another and find out who timms has reached out to collaborate or ask impact from (both up till now and any remaining time before the timms review is officially published)

    The dwp want to paint a narrative that disabled and disability organisations have been consulted throughout but the green paper consultation was a total farce and there is next to no reports on the behind the scenes going on of the timms review (I think disability charities and campaigners would be open if they went to a timms review focus type group or meeting or anything that allowed disabled to directly share opinions with timms let alone actual collaboration)

    Timms progress needs to be followed very carefully - if disabled are once again blocked off from giving input surely it will be a court issue (timms give his verbal word that disabled will be involved throughout the process of his review - unless he was only counting disabled Labour MPs that supported the uc bill?)


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Roy Haynes
    · 1 days ago
    It was the Speakers decision to Certify the Universal Credit Bill as a Money Bill and he WRONG ! to do so
    We must appeal against the Speakers decision and the only Authority that can overrule the Speaker is the Supreme Court  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Fiona
    · 1 days ago
    Sorry if I sound daft but the (money Bill) thing is really sneaky why did the conservatives not use this to stop anything being discussed democratically and is this the underhanded way Sir kid starver (love the name)means to change things for the good of the country. You would never believe his previous job he must be used to telling big fat porkies
    I pray they don't use these underhanded tactics to have nothing discussed in the Lords it's a disgrace
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    MrFibro
    · 1 days ago
    Labour will certainly get a good hiding at the next GE.  Just hope the voters don't forget.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      tintack
      · 8 hours ago
      @Cheekyfeet
      "I was elected on a pledge to put the voices of disabled people at the heart of policy, and I am glad that the broken Work Capability Assessment, which many constituents have criticised, will be scrapped. This will simplify the process for accessing health-related benefits into one single assessment and end the binary can-or-cannot work divide,"

      If applied to existing claimants, the new "simplified" process will mean 600,000 of us who get UC health but not PIP daily living will lose our UC health and be plunged into poverty. And with no WCA there will be no incapacity for work test and it will therefore be impossible to be acknowledged as unfit for work. 

      Whether the post-Timms system will be applied to existing claimants we don't know. If they exempt existing PIP claimants from it then they will probably have to do the same with existing LCWRA claimants, partly because there would be a glaring contradiction in exempting one group of claimants from the new system while subjecting the other group to it, the blatant unfairness of which is pretty much impossible to miss, and partly because pushing 600,000 people into poverty does not look like something which they could get past their own party in the light of recent events. Indeed, before scrapping the November 2026 PIP changes entirely they had already had to agree to exempt existing claimants from those changes; had they not done so they would certainly have lost the vote. It therefore seems highly unlikely that they could get away with subjecting existing PIP and LCWRA claimants to the post-Timms assessment. But it's amazing how MPs like this one can simply swallow the propaganda and regurgitate the talking points without apparently bothering to find out what any of this actually means in practice.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Cheekyfeet
      · 12 hours ago
      @Cheekyfeet Update: After posting this message I did hear off my local MP surprise surprise! they backed the bill fully, and they think it will curb welfare spending, move more sick and disabled back into work, and protect those who can not, the wording of the email just sounds so familiar it's like it's a cut and paste job from a press releases or a script they have been given to send to anyone who queries the governments welfare policies, here is the text of the email I received yesterday 

      "I recognise that the Government’s proposed welfare reforms have been a source of uncertainty and anxiety, and I welcome the development that all of those currently receiving Personal Independence Payments (PIP) will stay within the current system. Please be assured that no changes will be made to PIP eligibility criteria until the Government has concluded its review of the assessment process.

      I believe in a welfare state that is there for all of us when we need it, now and in the future, that protects the most vulnerable, and that delivers equality and dignity for all. There will always be some people who cannot work, and the Universal Credit Bill will protect them. The Bill will ensure that 200,000 individuals with the most severe disabling conditions are never again called for Universal Credit (UC) reassessments. I would also like to reassure you that anyone currently in receipt of the UC health component will have their benefits protected in real terms, while they benefit from a higher standard allowance.

      I believe that those who can work, should, and that those who cannot, should be protected. That is why I back the Government’s record £1 billion investment in tailored employment support for disabled people. This comes alongside efforts to break down barriers to work and create healthier, more inclusive workplaces. Disabled people deserve the same opportunities as anybody else.

      The Bill will tackle the perverse incentives of our welfare system. It will benefit millions of households by increasing the standard allowance of Universal Credit above inflation for the first time ever, with a forecasted cash increase of £725 per year for a single household aged over 25 by 2030.

      I was elected on a pledge to put the voices of disabled people at the heart of policy, and I am glad that the broken Work Capability Assessment, which many constituents have criticised, will be scrapped. This will simplify the process for accessing health-related benefits into one single assessment and end the binary can-or-cannot work divide, helping those who can work to access support to do so. The Government has also launched a review of the PIP assessment to ensure the benefit is fair and fit for the future. This will be co-produced with disabled people and the organisations that represent them. Ministers will only make changes to PIP eligibility, activities and descriptors following the review, which is expected to report in Autumn 2026.

      Taken together, this is a fair package that will preserve the social security system for those who need it, by putting it on a sustainable footing. It will support people back into work, protect those who cannot work and reduce anxiety for those currently in the system.

      Thank you once again for contacting me about this issue" 

      I haven't replied back as I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference. It certainly has not reduced any anxiety of those already in the system it's made the anxiety worse!

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      tintack
      · 1 days ago
      @MrFibro Given the fragmentation of the vote on both sides of the political spectrum I would think the most likely outcome at the next election is either a hung parliament or a government which only has a small majority. It would certainly be far harder for such a government - of whatever political complexion - to get anything controversial through than it is for a government with a landslide majority. It's therefore possible it could be an improvement on the current situation, especially if it were a Labour government forced to rely on the left of its own party and the Greens. Reeves would really have something to cry about then. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      John
      · 1 days ago
      @MrFibro Unless the economy is doing terribly I expect Labour will win the next general election. Welfare cuts did not cause the Tories to lose power, and the Tories at least see welfare cuts as a voting winning policy. While I expect lots of people on the left will make excuses for the Labour government, and be telling people to vote Labour as the alternative Reform or Tory or a coalition of both would be far worse.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      andrew
      · 1 days ago
      @MrFibro Problem is the other party's will halve benefits they already promised it 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    MrFibro
    · 1 days ago
    Why have an house of lords, if the commons can simply ignore them?


    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Roy Haynes
      · 20 hours ago
      @MrFibro The House of Commons often need to rush thru a Bill if its just about money do they bypass the lords
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      rtbcpart2
      · 1 days ago
      @MrFibro It's day care for the elderly aristocracy.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    James
    · 2 days ago
    It is my hope that the MPs who have rebelled will leave and joint the independent alliance and be part of the new party being formed. If they do not leave Starmer will pick them off one by one at his own time and choosing so I would not wait to see what happens but pre-empt him and create a new movement of the progressives while they hold seats in parliament. I hope they wake up to what is coming and move decisively for the good of the people. It will be a strong movement if all happens now and will be a thorn in the side of the parties on the right, labour, conservative and reform and may rally others like the libdems, greens, snp, pliad, UDP and others towards them in an alliance then you can do deals as a coalition if need be to get your progressive ideas formalised. It is time for some real political change that is long overdue in this country. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Tim
    · 2 days ago
    there will be skull duggery of epic proportions.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Roy Haynes
    · 2 days ago
    The Universal Credit Bill is Not just a Money Bill,  because it puts the Severe Conditions Criteria into Law, which includes the Unambiguous diagnoses clause ( meaning a Crystal Clear diagnoses with a name ) So that's a Law about Medical Procedures. 
    Further more the NHS cannot always afford to find rare Genetic Mutations which then remain Unlocated for the rest of the Claimants Life, so they have a condition without a Name for Life
    How can a Law Insist upon a Crystal Clear and Named Condition if the NHS cannot afford to do Whole Genome Sequencing with Endless Technicians Hours looking for a needle in a haystack
    SWAN UK say 6000 born every year without a Name         
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    (No) hope
    · 2 days ago
    Kemi badenuff has said that the state should not be where you go to for support. Thanks for giving us a sneaky peek at your deeply disturbing future manifesto. A truly disgusting individual.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      tintack
      · 1 days ago
      @(No) hope
      "Kemi badenuff has said that the state should not be where you go to for support. Thanks for giving us a sneaky peek at your deeply disturbing future manifesto."

      I very much doubt she will last long enough to produce a manifesto.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Laura
      · 1 days ago
      @The impartial socialist Totally agree, any new parties created will need their policies, manifestos and utterings forensically examined by us all. The thought of a successive government being worse is terrifying but likely.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      The impartial socialist
      · 1 days ago
      @(No) hope An absolutely horrid woman that hates the disabled so much she can’t even hide it. Starmer was bad as all know and we got him halted but trust me worse is yet to come. The conservatives are all but insignificant now and bar any major changes they shall remain so. If anyone that’s disabled thinks farage and reform are the answer I suggest you do your research. If farage and Co got into power with a big enough majority to force issues through the house it will make what starmer had planned looking like a tea party. We need to be very very careful at the next election because there’s a lot worse coming our way I fear. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Cuckoo21
      · 1 days ago
      @(No) hope She is vile. Hope she, her family or friends never end up with a disability or illness and need support. Although they've got plenty of money so they probably wouldn't need it. I think they are all disgusting. Throwing money around here there and everywhere. Why don't they concentrate on this country and the people born here. I'm all for helping others that GENUINELY need it I think most people are compassionate and would want to help those that need it.  But let's  face it, it's a joke the way they are supporting everyone other than their own. Why are they punishing the most vulnerable in society?  And conservatives or reform would be 100 times worse. Other parties never get a look in. I am fuming, as mad as a box a frogs right now. 😡
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      · 1 days ago
      @(No) hope
      Yup, she is worse than bad, she is vile, full of skull duggery, as in the words that Tim has used above.  I like this word skull duggery!! Made me smile :-) 
      Glad that we have this site to express ourselves.  No-one else listens to us.  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Ann
    · 2 days ago
    What happened to the green paper consultation which some of us responded to? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      godgivemestrength
      · 1 days ago
      @Ann @Ann, hahahahahahahaha. Great question for Sir Stephen.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Anna
    · 2 days ago
    Can someone tell me . I get UC with LCWRA I've just had text saying my pip application has been successful. Won't know how much I'm getting till I getting till I get letter in two weeks. What I want to know is do I have to let UC know I'm getting pip. Some people say no others say just put message on journal. Does it affect my UC at all.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Eli
      · 1 days ago
      @Anna No, at the moment they are separate benefits. You will get your pip as normal. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      John
      · 1 days ago
      @Michael Are you sure? Lots of people say they get "We have awarded you PIP" texts from the DWP and lots of people don't. The DWP apparently have at least 25 different text messages they can send during the PIP claim process. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Michael
      · 1 days ago
      @Anna PIP dont send out messages saying you are successful or otherwise.

      They can say a decion has been reached, but they never confirm either way by text message. Ever.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Slb
      · 1 days ago
      @Anna It won't affect your UC. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    kevin
    · 2 days ago
    Forgive my ignorance but does this mean all the concessions are now out the window and we are back to the original bill? Does this mean there is no way to change anything or amend it for the better? Are we back to square one? 

    Would someone please explain it in layman's terms? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      sara
      · 1 days ago
      @pollenpath @pollenpath In replying to @kevIn I said we should try not to worry. I was clarifying the outcome of the 9th July vote in answer to his questions, and offering reassurance that we have been able significantly to reduce the extent of cuts originally proposed.

      I acknowledged that we might not trust the Timms review, and that we might need to take further action, so we are in agreement there, but I see no value in suggesting people should worry, especially when many things are undecided. We will address what is put before us.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      pollenpath
      · 1 days ago
      @sara I disagree that we shouldn't worry. It has been reported that the terms of reference for the Timms review have already been set, and that is not coproduction. So from now until the review is made available we need to keep up the pressure and build on the awareness that has been raised this year, if not to be able to influence the process of the review itself then at least to strengthen cooperation between disabled people’s organisations, disabled people, and MPs/councillors. Long before the review reports back we need to be ready to scrutinise it as publicly as possible. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      sara
      · 1 days ago
      @kevin @kevin, all that has passed are cuts to the rate of lcwra for new claimants from April 2026.

      We are not back to the original bill. The government has to start again to put forward any further changes to welfare. Part of that process will be the Timms review of pip, which is supposed to take place in consultation with representatives of the disabled and due to be complete by autumn 2026.

      We do not know how genuine that consultation will be or what attempts at legislation will follow, but let's take heart from the fact that we saw off the larger part of the government's welfare to work green paper proposals. If they try to resurrect them, we will fight them again, but for now, we should try not to worry.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      MrFibro
      · 1 days ago
      @Sam But for how long?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      I prefer not to starve
      · 2 days ago
      @kevin The concessions are locked in.

      Lords can suggest it's a good idea not to push people into poverty and ask for more concessions but the government can (and probably will) ignore them.

      This is bad because it speaks of Sir Kid Starvers intent to plow ahead with what he wants to do without input from others.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Cuckoo21
    · 2 days ago
    A question for b & w, if you can help please. Could the Timms review go back on the amendment to remove the 4 point rule for PIP? Also will any changes to PIP be debated and voted on in the house of commons like we've just had with universal credit. I'm worried and confused by it all. Thanks.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Cuckoo21
    · 2 days ago
    Wil the Timms review be debated and voted on in parliament?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      SLB
      · 23 hours ago
      @HL This should take you to it:

      https://qna.files.parliament.uk/ws-attachments/1817526/original/Timms%20Review%20of%20the%20PIP%20Assessment.pdf
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      tintack
      · 1 days ago
      @James
      "Yes but you need to be aware of when it's placed before parliament and they are done during Christmas recess and have limited time for scrutiny otherwise they can go through unchallenged that's is why people need to be aware"

      Even if they managed to sneak it through in that way, the considerable number of backbenchers who were willing to sign the reasoned amendment on the current bill would go absolutely ballistic. The bad blood between a significant chunk of the PLP and the leadership - which is already festering following recent events - would intensify even further and the political damage would be huge. They would have to be insane to try anything like this.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      HL
      · 1 days ago
      @Slb That’s interesting - do you have a source - for the Timms terms of reference?

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      James
      · 1 days ago
      @tintack Yes but you need to be aware of when it's placed before parliament and they are done during Christmas recess and have limited time for scrutiny otherwise they can go through unchallenged that's is why people need to be aware 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Slb
      · 1 days ago
      @James I don't know where this understanding comes from considering no-one knows what will be recommended, what the govt will move forward with, and what legislation, if any, is required.  

      Someone saying "we're worried it will be secondary legislation" somewhere on the web does not mean it will be.  And the repeating of this kind of thing, with a rather imaginative run-down of sneaky dealings, is scaring the crap out of people.  It's not cool.  

      The Timms terms of reference states clearly primary legislation, secondary legislation, or no new legislation.   We don't know.  They don't know.  No-one knows.  And there's not a damn thing we can do about it until announcements are made next autumn.

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