- Posts: 39
- Forum
- Members forums
- ESA, PIP and DLA Queries and Results
- Do the Tribunal have access to any reports??
× Members
Do the Tribunal have access to any reports??
- UmmB
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
7 years 10 months ago #162034 by UmmB
Do the Tribunal have access to any reports?? was created by UmmB
Sorry, I am new to the site. I have been on enhanced PIP from July 2014 to April 2016. I am not sure if it was because I stopped taking my antidepressants but it was now decided that I CAN engage with people and plan a journey (which are not true). I explained in my MR in a lot of detail why I struggle with these activities. The HP told me I had deteriorated and movements were restricted but I did not get points, I feel, for the more mental activities where I should have. I am now thinking to appeal and wondered will they have access to any letters I had sent with my MR or even previously (from GP, support worker and social worker)?
I don't feel the letters have been looked at because the MR Decision lette states they received a letter from my GP and social worker (however I didn't send anything from the social worker this time. It was the support worker). The other reason I think they have just rushed a decision is because the MR Decision letter dated 16 June 2016, states "we will be in contact in December 2015". Can I use these examples at the appeal also for DWP not doing a thorough job?
The other difficulty I have is that although the HP was sympathetic to my face and said I was physically very restricted movements wise, she has twisted a couple of things or made them up altogether. Eg, she asked if Omeprazole helped my difficulty swallowing. I said it helps with feeling sick but that's it. She has stated that it helps me to swallow too though. I have now been diagnosed with a hiatal hernia yesterday, so would that go in my favour?
She also said that I apparently said I can engage with people well. What I actually said was I'm not on FB and have no friends. How do I explain these details to the tribunal without it sounding like I am being awkward?
Look forward to any replies
I don't feel the letters have been looked at because the MR Decision lette states they received a letter from my GP and social worker (however I didn't send anything from the social worker this time. It was the support worker). The other reason I think they have just rushed a decision is because the MR Decision letter dated 16 June 2016, states "we will be in contact in December 2015". Can I use these examples at the appeal also for DWP not doing a thorough job?
The other difficulty I have is that although the HP was sympathetic to my face and said I was physically very restricted movements wise, she has twisted a couple of things or made them up altogether. Eg, she asked if Omeprazole helped my difficulty swallowing. I said it helps with feeling sick but that's it. She has stated that it helps me to swallow too though. I have now been diagnosed with a hiatal hernia yesterday, so would that go in my favour?
She also said that I apparently said I can engage with people well. What I actually said was I'm not on FB and have no friends. How do I explain these details to the tribunal without it sounding like I am being awkward?
Look forward to any replies
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51206
7 years 10 months ago #162058 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Do the Tribunal have access to any reports??
UmmB
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explain where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
I would start by having a look at our PIP Appeal guide, it has links to the SSCS1 form that you will need to complete to request an appeal and instructions on how to complete it, it also explains the appeal process.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
Your goal at an appeal is to show that you meet the criteria for an award, the Tribunal panel may agree with you that the DWP have not done a good job of reviewing your claim, but even if they do this will not have an effect on whether you qualify for an award or not.
Once your appeal request is accepted by the Tribunal Service, you will receive a bundle of documents from the DWP, this will be their submission to the appeal, in addition to explaining there reasons for their Decision it will also include all of the documents used in the making of the Decision, your letters should be included.
You appear to already have the assessment report, a good place for your to start in preparing your own submission is for you to go through your PIP2, the report and our PIP Claim guide.
Do you have a copy of your previous PIP2 and assessment report? If you do then it be worth you having a look at what was written to understand why a change in your limitations appears to have been considered.
If you have more questions then please reply to this post and we will do our best to help.
Gordon
Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explain where everything is
Welcome to Benefits and Work
I would start by having a look at our PIP Appeal guide, it has links to the SSCS1 form that you will need to complete to request an appeal and instructions on how to complete it, it also explains the appeal process.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
Your goal at an appeal is to show that you meet the criteria for an award, the Tribunal panel may agree with you that the DWP have not done a good job of reviewing your claim, but even if they do this will not have an effect on whether you qualify for an award or not.
Once your appeal request is accepted by the Tribunal Service, you will receive a bundle of documents from the DWP, this will be their submission to the appeal, in addition to explaining there reasons for their Decision it will also include all of the documents used in the making of the Decision, your letters should be included.
You appear to already have the assessment report, a good place for your to start in preparing your own submission is for you to go through your PIP2, the report and our PIP Claim guide.
Do you have a copy of your previous PIP2 and assessment report? If you do then it be worth you having a look at what was written to understand why a change in your limitations appears to have been considered.
If you have more questions then please reply to this post and we will do our best to help.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Derek4
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 2521
7 years 10 months ago #162085 by Derek4
Replied by Derek4 on topic Do the Tribunal have access to any reports??
Hi UmmB
To answer the question in the title, tribunals have absolutely no access to any evidence other than what's in the appeal papers. It's the responsibility of you and the DWP to put forward evidence to support your/their case.
It is well worth pointing out flaws and errors in the DWP's reasons but it's best to keep them brief and focus on your arguments to support your case. If your report has 200 errors in it you could just touch on the most important ones and make it clear that they are just examples.
Unfortunately decision makers, as a formality, list all the evidence that they are supposed to look at, which is probably why they don't pay much attention to the list.
To answer your last question, please don't feel that you are being awkward by directly contradicting many aspects of the medical report. It happens at every tribunal and tribunals, if they have any experience at least, are well aware of the inadequacies of these reports.
Good luck,
Derek
To answer the question in the title, tribunals have absolutely no access to any evidence other than what's in the appeal papers. It's the responsibility of you and the DWP to put forward evidence to support your/their case.
It is well worth pointing out flaws and errors in the DWP's reasons but it's best to keep them brief and focus on your arguments to support your case. If your report has 200 errors in it you could just touch on the most important ones and make it clear that they are just examples.
Unfortunately decision makers, as a formality, list all the evidence that they are supposed to look at, which is probably why they don't pay much attention to the list.
To answer your last question, please don't feel that you are being awkward by directly contradicting many aspects of the medical report. It happens at every tribunal and tribunals, if they have any experience at least, are well aware of the inadequacies of these reports.
Good luck,
Derek
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- UmmB
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 39
7 years 10 months ago #162196 by UmmB
Replied by UmmB on topic Do the Tribunal have access to any reports??
Thank you so much for getting back to me.
No unfortunately I do not have access to my previous forms or even the medical report. I only have the reasoning given in the MR Decision letter, and most of that is untrue. For example, it says "you can manage this, as stated by yourself" - but it wasn't stated by me. Also my husband replied to most of the HP's questions but it says I apparently built a good rapport with her. I'm just shocked they can say anything really and then it's left to us to prove that it's not true.
I am so glad you have told me that the tribunal won't have access to any other documents such as letter from my GP. I will try to get a copy of the letters because I think my GP is probably fed up of me asking for a letter every now and then. But it finally looks like I may have got my referral to a neurologist. Should I mention this in the appeal also?
Unfortunately I have made every effort to make DWP aware in detail regarding my issues with each activity. It took me 3 weeks to complete my MR, only for them to say we STILL feel standard rate is ok, and will contact you after December 2015!! And they clearly haven't paid attention to letters I have sent in as they got that wrong too. It's heart breaking really - I just find the whole process sooo mentally and emotionally exhausting.
Can I mention that although my letter stated that the assessment was on the ground floor, it was actually on the first floor? I constantly need to hold on to my husband to walk for support and balance and I had to stop every 6-7 metres there too due to cheap pain and hip pain. But apparently I was "observed" walking 20 metres. Each time I mention that an aid is not sufficient because I would lose my balance and fall over without my husband, it doesn't really get considered and it's as if they are saying it's ok, your husband is your aid. A person can't be though can they? For example I have almost walked into cars, so a walking stick wouldn't pull me or stop me falling. I explained my wrists wouldn't allow that anyway. The MR decision letter simply says "balance issues have been considered". Not sure what that even means. I called the decision maker to clarify things and he spoke in the most intimidating tone saying "Mm-hmm, well you just need to appeal".
Can someone clarify if a person can be classed as an aid, because I explained this was also why I'm housebound but I have been making an effort to go out once every couple of weeks with him. But they say I'm not housebound because I can walk 20 metres (which I can't without my husband and definitely not repetitively or safely)
Please advise on any points raised, very much appreciated xx
No unfortunately I do not have access to my previous forms or even the medical report. I only have the reasoning given in the MR Decision letter, and most of that is untrue. For example, it says "you can manage this, as stated by yourself" - but it wasn't stated by me. Also my husband replied to most of the HP's questions but it says I apparently built a good rapport with her. I'm just shocked they can say anything really and then it's left to us to prove that it's not true.
I am so glad you have told me that the tribunal won't have access to any other documents such as letter from my GP. I will try to get a copy of the letters because I think my GP is probably fed up of me asking for a letter every now and then. But it finally looks like I may have got my referral to a neurologist. Should I mention this in the appeal also?
Unfortunately I have made every effort to make DWP aware in detail regarding my issues with each activity. It took me 3 weeks to complete my MR, only for them to say we STILL feel standard rate is ok, and will contact you after December 2015!! And they clearly haven't paid attention to letters I have sent in as they got that wrong too. It's heart breaking really - I just find the whole process sooo mentally and emotionally exhausting.
Can I mention that although my letter stated that the assessment was on the ground floor, it was actually on the first floor? I constantly need to hold on to my husband to walk for support and balance and I had to stop every 6-7 metres there too due to cheap pain and hip pain. But apparently I was "observed" walking 20 metres. Each time I mention that an aid is not sufficient because I would lose my balance and fall over without my husband, it doesn't really get considered and it's as if they are saying it's ok, your husband is your aid. A person can't be though can they? For example I have almost walked into cars, so a walking stick wouldn't pull me or stop me falling. I explained my wrists wouldn't allow that anyway. The MR decision letter simply says "balance issues have been considered". Not sure what that even means. I called the decision maker to clarify things and he spoke in the most intimidating tone saying "Mm-hmm, well you just need to appeal".
Can someone clarify if a person can be classed as an aid, because I explained this was also why I'm housebound but I have been making an effort to go out once every couple of weeks with him. But they say I'm not housebound because I can walk 20 metres (which I can't without my husband and definitely not repetitively or safely)
Please advise on any points raised, very much appreciated xx
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51206
7 years 10 months ago #162199 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Do the Tribunal have access to any reports??
UmmB
Forgive me but I am struggling to understand which letter you are referring to, are there more than one set as you refer to letters you sent in with your MR and then GP letters?
Anything you have sent in as part of your original claim or as part of your MR will be included in the document bundle that the DWP will send to you and the Tribunal Service.
You can include anything you think is relevant in your submission to the Tribunal Service, but the panel will only be interested in matters that directly relate to your ability to complete each of the PIP activities, your assessment being on the First floor rather than the Ground floor is not something in itself that I would expect them to have an interest in, however, if your managed to attend on the First floor then this may be something that they will ask you about.
An "aid" or "appliance" is defined as any device which improves, provides or replaces an impaired physical or mental function. I don't believe that a person can be treated as a device and therefore they cannot be an aid. However the phrase "aided" is also defined and in this context it could be a person, this is usually in context to prompting, assistance or supervision.
The Tribunal will look at you claim from scratch, they will also treat all of the evidence with a much more balanced approach.
You need to show why you meet the criteria for the Descriptors that you think apply to you. You need to make sure that you fully understand what those criteria are, some have multiple elements and you must meet all of those elements to score points.
Remember that the PIP Activities must be completed reliably and on the majority of days not to score points, so make sure you include these references wherever relevant.
Gordon
Forgive me but I am struggling to understand which letter you are referring to, are there more than one set as you refer to letters you sent in with your MR and then GP letters?
Anything you have sent in as part of your original claim or as part of your MR will be included in the document bundle that the DWP will send to you and the Tribunal Service.
You can include anything you think is relevant in your submission to the Tribunal Service, but the panel will only be interested in matters that directly relate to your ability to complete each of the PIP activities, your assessment being on the First floor rather than the Ground floor is not something in itself that I would expect them to have an interest in, however, if your managed to attend on the First floor then this may be something that they will ask you about.
An "aid" or "appliance" is defined as any device which improves, provides or replaces an impaired physical or mental function. I don't believe that a person can be treated as a device and therefore they cannot be an aid. However the phrase "aided" is also defined and in this context it could be a person, this is usually in context to prompting, assistance or supervision.
The Tribunal will look at you claim from scratch, they will also treat all of the evidence with a much more balanced approach.
You need to show why you meet the criteria for the Descriptors that you think apply to you. You need to make sure that you fully understand what those criteria are, some have multiple elements and you must meet all of those elements to score points.
Remember that the PIP Activities must be completed reliably and on the majority of days not to score points, so make sure you include these references wherever relevant.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- UmmB
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 39
7 years 10 months ago #162205 by UmmB
Replied by UmmB on topic Do the Tribunal have access to any reports??
Also I keep reading that in order to appeal, I should have a letter with the heading "Mandatory Reconsideration Notice". I do not have this. Mine says "personal independence payment decision". Also it says you sent us your how your disability affects you form, but I actually went a mandatory reconsideration.. Can I appeal with this letter?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, jimmck, Chris