Most commentators have assumed that the Conservatives would always vote in favour of anything that resembled a benefits cut. But there now seems to be a possibility that the Tories are planning to support Labour rebels and vote against Labour’s Green Paper.

On 18 May, Conservative MP Helen Whately told the Standard: “Labour’s plans dodge the difficult decisions on welfare, leave more people out of work than they put in and will hit some of the nation’s poorest people.

“The sickness benefits bill is spiralling out of control and these rushed reforms will make things worse, not better.

“These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy. And it seems that even some of the people closest to Reeves agree with us, not her.”

What makes this total condemnation of the Green Paper particularly noteworthy is that Whately is the Conservative shadow secretary for work and pensions.  It seems unlikely that she would have been so outspoken in her criticism without party approval.

It is clear that the rebellion on Labour’s back benches has been growing in the two months since the Green Paper was published.

On 1 April, the Labour List website published the names of 27 MPs who said they would rebel against the government and 15 more who had expressed opposition to the Green Paper.

On 8 May, 42 Labour MPs wrote to the prime minister to say the cuts were impossible to support.

On 15 May, ITV reported that 50 Labour MPs were set to rebel, including the 42 who had signed the original letter.  100 MPs had also signed a private letter to Starmer urging the government to delay the changes and rethink its proposals. At least 6 MPs signed both letters.

Which suggests that somewhere in the region of 130 Labour MPs oppose the cuts, though there is no suggestion they would all vote against them.

The labour leadership are said to be considering a number of ways to buy off the rebels.  These include changes to the winter fuel payment means-test, changes to the two child limit or changes to the benefits cap. 

The idea will be to tell rebel MPs that the government doesn’t have the cash help these groups and also to drop its Green Paper cuts.

Whether this is a pitch that will work, remains to be seen.

But there seems to be at least a possibility that the Conservatives are now positioning themselves to take advantage of Labour’s disarray.

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    · 1 days ago
    "The labour leadership are said to be considering a number of ways to buy off the rebels. These include changes to the winter fuel payment means-test, changes to the two child limit or changes to the benefits cap. " So in other words they won't budge on letting us keep our disability benefits and thus the sick and disabled are being thrown under the bus yet again regardless?! I am furious.
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      · 1 days ago
      @Dpb999 Exactly what I said they would do some weeks ago.  I knew this would be their plan to placate just enough.
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      · 1 days ago
      @Dpb999
      "" - So in other words they won't budge on letting us keep our disability benefits and thus the sick and disabled are being thrown under the bus yet again regardless?! I am furious."

      It sounds as though they're going to give some ground on the WFA in the hope that this will buy off MPs opposed to the disability cuts so the latter get through. That doesn't mean it will work. If the Tories vote against the cuts and the Labour rebellion is big enough - and it does seem to have been growing over the last couple of months - then they may have to budge, whether they like it or not.
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    · 2 days ago
    I think the easiest way to explain this to those who seem surprised or disbelieving that the Tories could oppose these plans is simple: they want votes. Particularly from pensioners who are going to be dealt a double blow from the WFA being means-tested and the uncertainty as to whether or not they'll have their PIP cut too under these new rules and may feel inclined to turn to Reform.

    Remember how Timms, Kendall and Starmer openly criticised benefit cuts when they were in the opposition and therefore wanted votes? It's the exact same situation here.

    Or perhaps - in the pettiest terms - the Tories just want to see Labour lose out on what is being perceived as a major vote so they can call Starmer out on his weakness and his inability to "keep their house in order". And if the disabled have to be used as a means to an end, so be it.

    Obviously, I'm no fan of the Tories but - at the same time - what I wouldn't give to see Starmer, Reeves, Timms and Kendall lose out on this vote and be pictured by the press walking about with hangdog looks that clearly read "wow, as if I have to go away and redo my homework on why some of the most vulnerable of society should be rendered even more worse off!". 
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      · 1 days ago
      @Dez
      "Or perhaps - in the pettiest terms - the Tories just want to see Labour lose out on what is being perceived as a major vote so they can call Starmer out on his weakness and his inability to "keep their house in order". And if the disabled have to be used as a means to an end, so be it."

      That's certainly part of it. I would think it's also partly because these cuts have not proven to be as popular with the public as right wingers probably assumed they would be. While the WFA cut is the most unpopular measure and has had the biggest cut through, with a public rating of about -80, the polling I saw on disability cuts had public opinion on about -40. That's still significantly unpopular, and that's before the cuts have even been voted on, let alone implemented.

      There's also the point that if the government does lose the vote - and it could happen, since the Tories voting against together with a Labour rebellion of 100+ MPs could well be enough - then it will be clear that significant cuts to disability benefits will not pass the Commons. In that case Reeves will have to go back to the drawing board and thieve £5billion from somewhere else. Whatever spending cut or tax rise she came up with as an alternative, you can be sure the Tories would eagerly attack it.
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    · 2 days ago
    Yeah they said they were opposing it at the recent PIP cuts debate. Just scanned through to confirm. Watch it at 1hr 18mins the conservatives guy speaking says so less than a minute of that point.
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    · 2 days ago
    Just maybe now all this talk today about EU deal perhaps maybe the European human rights will help get rid of these cruel and inhumane cuts to disabled people I’m hoping a just maybe perhaps that’s why conservatives have now gone against the green paper disaster proposals. Thanks for your time reading my post 
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    · 2 days ago
    If the Tories do vote against the green paper it will of course be utterly cynical and opportunistic. But we have to take what we can get - and it would certainly increase the chances of the government losing the vote, especially with reports that there are now 100 or more labour MPs who are opposed to this nonsense. If it seriously looks like they might lose, they could either be forced into a total climbdown (here's hoping) or at the very least make some very significant changes.
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    · 2 days ago
    Commentary in Guardian today:

    Did Starmer’s supporters expect such an agenda – one as gruesomely reactionary as it is bereft of an obvious electoral base of support? Did they believe it would prove so devoid of principle as to allow Farage to dictate the national political conversation before they’d even completed one year in power?

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      · 1 days ago
      @Gingin Excellent article. Well worth reading
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      · 1 days ago
      @Gingin Such a good article.
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      · 1 days ago
      @Gingin Sends shivers, doesn't it?
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    · 2 days ago
    It is right these cuts are ill thought out and not desgined to assist those that may be able to work into work,as the system is just not set up to deliver tailored help, nowhere near it.  It needs to be accepted that some will never work and a consultants evidence should be enough to support that, without endless assessments, trying to trip you up.  And fine if the Conservatives those that choose to vote against these proposals, but yes theirs were abysmal.  I have written to my MP a Tory against their proposals, and again regarding Labours abomination.
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    · 2 days ago
    With regards the Tories they would vote against labour and with the rebels as it would then lead to a vote of no confidence and renewed elections if the government lost the no confidence vote. That is Real Politicks 
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    · 2 days ago
    There needs to be a sickness element to UC/New Style ESA as this really has nothing to do with a person's disability and there needs to be a proper PIP form that takes into consideration weakness and difficulties in leading a normal life. The questions need to be entirely different based on illnesses be it mental or physical based on real world illnesses that make it difficult to work and the ones for PIP has to take into consideration a far more holistic view of a person and what makes it hard for them to do normal things. I don't think the UC/New style ESA should be dependent on PIP and they should continue to be separate and not dependent on if a person gets PIP or not! These are the areas where a complete overhaul and reform is needed not tinkering around with the questions which do not reflect real situations in a modern world
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      · 21 hours ago
      @Mand Sorry to hear what you've been going through. Me and my family are in a similar position in terms of what we'll lose. I'm my husband's carer, he can't work but won't score 4 points and I can't work full time and leave him alone. Sign this open letter from Carer's UK, share the letter with as many people as you can, and email your MP. The more people shouting about this to power,, the more chance we have of impacting decisions.

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      · 1 days ago
      @James I'm on cbesa before that I was on incapacity benefit just missing out on invalidy benefit, it had just changed when I applied infact the employer who was medically retiring me did the form for me in my house,I had no issue getting it,infact I don't remember having an assessment, I gave been ill almost 30 years I've actually lost count,these changes at my age of almost 56,will completely devastate my income,I'm set to lise cbesa because it won't exist,higher rate pip,no 4 pointers,and my husband his carer's allowance, it's almost 12k a year,I do not know what we are going to do,my husband can not go back working full time and leave me alone, I can't manage,I will not be getting employment,that's 100% certain,noone will employ someone who can't even make the interview never mind turn up,my head is mush and I'm panicking all the time now,even over basic things like being left alone for an hour in my own house,or it going dark outside, or waking up in the night, these things have never bothered me but I've been so stressed out over all this that panic attacks are coming out of nowhere where they shouldn't be happening  where they never happened before,my therapist tells me I'm now suffering complex ptsd as well as agoraphobia, anxiety  panic disorder, severe depression plus a miard of physical illnesses where I'm also facing operations and I  know they suspect a cancer somewhere, they just can't find it,do we not have enough to deal with without all this nonsense?? I'm sure many of you reading this can easily relate,they need to just leave us alone before it ends up killing us off,or us that the whole plan?
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      · 1 days ago
      @James Very well put, @James, way to go before we start talking about work. I always think that question about how disabled people would like to get into work is a step too far into the enquiry. How about would you like to feel well enough to go to work, or even start with would you like to be able to do 'normal things'?
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    · 2 days ago
    "These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy" Bit rich when the Tories basically wanted to scrap PIP for most claimants and for those left replace it with vouchers or one of payments. And wanted to scrap the WCA and make everyone fit for work and at the mercy of DWP work coaches. 
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      · 1 days ago
      @john This isn't true. Under the Tories, current claiments would have never needed to go through a WCA again. Vouchers was floated but would never have passed.

      All in all we would have been far better off under the Tories.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @john Ssh, @John, let's just encourage them to vote against NOW!
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      · 2 days ago
      @john
      Exactly john, hit the nail on the head.

      I hope the tories do vote against and this whole disgusting thing is scrapped.  I hope it destroys Starmer, his house of cards comes tumbling down and, him and the rest of the right wing blue labour are got rid of.  The Labour Party returned to what the Labour Party should be.

      I'd so love to see Morgan McSweeney, Starmer, Kendall, Reeves, Timms and the rest of the supporters have to wind their necks in and piss off into oblivion.

      However, even if the tories do vote against and, make out as they have, that they are against all this, that people don't fall for it and vote for them, or reform.  Neither of them are any better.  They will be just as bad, likely far far worse.  They're trying to con their way back in.
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    · 2 days ago
    She is right in saying theybare cruel, Careless and clumsy.  Notwithstanding their effects on us, they are a complete shambles. Little to no sense in them at all, not even in trying to achieve the budget savings.  There is no "narrative" to them, in that they the elements of cuts don't support or relate to each other.  

    There were other ways to save money that wouldn't have been so damaging to us or Labour.  There could have been a third, lower tier of Daily Living at about half the money that the standard element is now.   There could be a benefits cap introduced for the disabled.  No, we wouldn't want either, but it would have been less devastating for us, and easier to bring in transitional protection, which they seem to not know how to implement as things are.

    Would that have saved the same amount of money?  No, but it could at least be seen  as humane and less politically damaging.  As for the Tories, they want to make Labour squirm, even if they believe in wider  cuts. 
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      · 1 days ago
      @Slb
      @Slb, I agree with you about the disjointed "narrative", regarding which I have posted extensively, but I don't think we should be offering compromises. It would be like Ukraine sacrificing territory and mineral rights, to Russia, to USA, whatever, when there never should have been an invasion.

      Maybe the government could come up with some genuine concessions, not just on winter fuel or two child/benefit cap, but we mustn't be scared into backing down, especially as the rebellion is gaining traction. We need to make it clear to all parties how politically damaging such as the green paper proposals would be, so none of them try it on in future. We have no surplus to sacrifice.

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    How can I PM Benefits and Work?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Gingin Thanks Gingin. I've emailed them.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @YogiBear Email them: 
      info@benefitsandwork.co.uk
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    there needs to be a review of the system to see that it is working well without cuts. are everyone who is entitled getting everything they are entitled to? crack down on the fraud first, suspend the managed migration from leggacy beneifits to Uc while this is going on. then, once the dwp have collected all fraud, mostly from UC and pension credit and housing beneifit at last count, they can then continue with the roll out of UC to existing claments. that's what a review should do, and I hope the disgust around what labour has done will result in a vote down of the paper. 
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